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File:1635444521336.jpg (783.17 KB,744x1052)

 No.85215

When vtubers first started getting popular after Kizuna AI, I didn't really care about them. Then when vtubers started going corporate, and English vtubers like Gura showed up, and when Nyanners became a vtuber, I really started to dislike them and saw them as cynical cash grabs that use anime-style charm to sucker people into spending money for the mere chance a message you wrote might be read. Worse than gacha, basically. But recently, I decided to start watching some on Twitch and have been really enjoying watching them. There's a whole bunch I've been watching, like Kaneko Lumi, marimari_en, ninoegyn, beribug, JeanFaymas, Tobs, and chromuchromu (she mentioned browsing 4/qa/ recently! She was on the wrong side of the war... The later, non-frog side...).

I've been enjoying watching them a lot, especially because Twitch doesn't have paid superchats like YouTube, so these vtubers just directly read chat. The only monetization is channel memberships for chat emotes. There's a nice atmosphere as a result. The chuuba just reads chat, occassionally says "thanks, [glorp] for subscribing/gifting channel memberships" or if a channel ends stream and sends their viewers to whoever you're watching they'll say "hello raiders! i'm [vtuber introduction]. thanks [glorp] for the raid." They also tend to have gimmicks based around Twitch's watch-time points thing, like throwing things at their model, or changing their outfit. It's nice, I enjoy it.

I can't really say the same about YouTube vtubers, though... They're still evil. They basically only read paid superchats.

 No.85216

Vtubers are bad because 3dpd larping as 2d, and yes this is different from a VA doing VA shit.

 No.85217

I still hate them and this thread made me hate them even more.

 No.85218

>>85217
hell yeah fuck vtumors
I'm taking over this thread and declaring it to be the secondary GURPS channel.
Anyways so if you want to play GURPS >>>/qa/136866

 No.85219

Bleugh.

 No.85220

File:1382587898611.jpg (149.27 KB,600x500)

I'm sorta in a similar camp where my hatred for vtubers has mostly left me. Even for the bigger corpo ones, I'll see them commissioning studios I like to produce high quality music videos for them, and they're definitely paying top dollar for the quality and that certainly benefits anime as a whole. At the very least, it seems like people whose interests align with mine are getting money and they're spending it in ways that help out the culture I love. So they can't be all that bad, especially when the animators themselves like vtubers and will put in references here and there of their own volition.

Though aside from that I just can't muster up the will to care about vtubers enough to follow or watch them, at all. Their streams don't interest me in the slightest except for using as JP study. Instead I'd much rather read a VN, play a game, watch anime, post on /qa/, or exercise. They're just not for me.

 No.85221

Though that chromuchromu can suck my cock, dude.

 No.85224

File:EF8m70oUwAI3VSG large.jpg (59.91 KB,1000x1000)

I try not to dwell on them much. I see them as an attack on nearly everything I value.

When it comes to 2D itself, it's an attack on the sanctity, beauty, creativity and general escapism into beautiful worlds of fiction that I've immersed myself in since I was a little kid. They take an aesthetic that represents something wonderful and wear it as a mask for their own profits and popularity. Few of them even design their character, it's just "Here's $1000, make me an avatar that sells". Utterly repugnant. It's not like their 2000 year-old dragon loli vampire robot persona with 5 different tails matters even one iota since it's just the streamer avatar. Furry OCs are more dignified. Roleplaying is completely absent, and they all have that one retard baby voice since, again, it's been shown to be profitable. (somehow). I like daa gaymesss heeeheeee. gurrassh guysh llet meee gargle air swwuiish swisssh, I'm SooOOoo eckcited fo the gaymes I pway today!

It's an attack on what I valued of the internet. I saw the internet as a place where everyone is a blank slate and their words can be equal to anyone else's, but vtubing quickly reestablishes the real life thing where a crowd of men gather around a woman because she's a woman and nothing more. Anything she says inherently has 100x more value than anything from me. It makes me extremely embarrassed of my gender and it has brought back adolescent hierarchies to places where people once found peace in equality among kin. People don't like a clever youtuber, they link something a girl did because it's a girl.
No, I don't hate women, I hate what men do around women.

It's an attack on creatives themselves, as vtubing is a genre of reactor content (falsely called creation) in which one game or movie or other phenomenon becomes largely experienced through the monetized streams of these bloodsuckers. For big companies this is seen as valuable, as they will even pay them to play their games or mention their movies as advertisement. However, it's a completely different thing when it's some small indie game and the reactors swarm over it like vultures and suddenly hundreds of thousands of people have seen the game and no longer have any curiosity to try it out themselves. Yeah, this extends to regular tubers, too.
I heard that some of them even stream VNs. How much do you need to hate yourself and the medium to experience a VN with some unfunny retard making template ironic jokes every 2 minutes while everyone POGGERS. What's the point if you're not even going to attempt to immerse yourself in another world? It's like cavemen hooting and hollering around a crashed spaceship.

So yes, I virulently hate vtubers, and for that reason I avoid talking about them outside of threads like this where my opinion is requested. I don't want to stop other people from having fun as I've accepted the part of getting older that involves watching the world change around you into something you dislike. Vtubers and gacha were the harbingers that told me that my time had passed.

 No.85225

Even if they weren't greedy jews and vapid attentionwhores, they'd still be garbage because they don't do anything of value. It's no different than the pretty girls who make Youtube vids of themselves reciting talking points for some social group or political ideology to get free "wow, she's just like me frfr" views from guys who spend most of their time in male-dominated spaces, except vtumors don't even have to be attractive or female to sell their slop. They're like circle crushers on a grand scale and you should be ashamed for letting those whores pull you away from your friends who actually care about you and the things you like.

 No.85227

File:[Serenae] Wonderful Precur….jpg (264.47 KB,1920x1080)

>>85224
I hope this post of mine didn't come off too mean. People should do what they enjoy.

 No.85232

sounds like male vtubers are alright

 No.85234

>>85232
They're all bad.
They're 3D masquerading as 2D.

By all means, people are allowed to like 3D stuff, but they will only redirect investment from anime to streamers. They are an actual threat to otaku culture as a whole.

 No.85239

>>85232
They seem far less popular, and being an opposite gender target demographic thing I get no secondary exposure to them. I'm kind of curious if their designs are more varied or if they're all bishie clones.

 No.85242

>>85232
I don't think I've ever even heard of a male vtuber (except all the ones with female avatars but I'm pretty sure that's not what you're talking about). In principle they're just as bad, but they're such a minuscule presence they might as well not factor into it at all.

 No.85244

File:sae bath.png (47.13 KB,166x156)

>>85215
It sounds to me like you're just doing what people did before vtubers blew up and watching regular twitch streamers.

I'm sticking to 2D, thanks.

 No.85247

File:Screenshot 2025-01-02 at 2….png (776.07 KB,1340x754)

>>85224
>Few of them even design their character
I'm fairly certain that most of the vtubers I mentioned watching designed some or all of their own model, maybe with the exception of marimari_en and Tobs. Lumi is a workaholic and pretty regularly makes model alterations, or adds little things to her model. nino designed her Live2D model, and occasionally does drawing streams. beri is much the same. JeanFaymas is way more talented. She designed literally everything herself, including the Live2D stuff. A lot of vtubers, even if they're skilled enough to design their own model, commission other people to do the Live2D rigging. And, I'm fairly certain chromu created her 3D model herself.

>I like daa gaymesss heeeheeee.
>People don't like a clever youtuber
I don't think this is a good faith criticism. I think it may be true for those corporate vtubers, especially Hololive or Nijisanji, who basically exclusively play Minecraft, but I think most indie vtubers do so because playing games and so forth is something they genuinely enjoy doing. Whatever your thoughts are on the merits of streaming daily games, you're not going to convince me that someone such as marimari_en who can correctly identify video game BGM from a 1 second snippet, or who can think up Pokemon based on type, region, etc. is actually only a vtuber because she just wants money and has no interest in video games, or anime, or whatever else. Besides, you can go and look at the Twitch leaks yourself. Most of these people are making less than $20K per year, and many still live at home with their parents.

>it's just "Here's $1000, make me an avatar that sells".
I mean this genuinely: why do you care? How much of the anime landscape is dominated by trends? Someone makes an isekai series, because it's popular. Someone adds a loli character for fan service. There's a tsundere because that's what's popular. You're creating a 90s to early 2000s anime, so you add a blue haired kuudere, or a character inexplicably has a blue jewel pendant necklace. It's the 1980s, so of course you're making an OVA or a mecha series. It's the 2000s, so your anime has an abundance of gratuitous panty shots. Why does it matter if someone decides they want to commission an artist to create something they think will be popular?

>They take an aesthetic that represents something wonderful and wear it as a mask for their own profits and popularity.
This is a pretty obvious double standard that no one really cares to apply elsewhere. How many VAs care about source material? They're just reading a script. VAs with a loli voice get cast to voice loli characters, VAs with a serious voice get cast to voice serious characters, and so on. People love to revere certain studios, but how many do you think actually scout out material to adapt versus being paid by a publisher to adapt it? How many people complain that artists switch drawing popular characters from one season to the next? How many people complain that an artist takes commissions versus drawing whatever they feel like?

Ultimately, it feels like many of these criticisms derive from questioning authenticity. With regards to the production of things, beyond vtubers, there is unquestionably little authenticity. The difference being, with a team of people working to create something, there is a diffuse level of direct input from any one person so that any individuality is subsumed into the collective work; when playing Dark Souls, do you consider the artist who designed the ground tile texture? When playing Pokemon, do you consider the artist who designed the Pokemon screeches? When reading a LN or Manga, do you consider the material you're not seeing, that was cut or altered by the publisher? When watching an anime, do you question the convictions to the character a VA is voicing? No, because as a collective work of fiction, those subtle and collective changes are negligible when considering the broader work. But because a vtuber is a one-person production, you can happily levy all of these criticisms you wouldn't dare consider otherwise despite the fact that an individual production is undoubtedly authentic to the intentions of the creator, the vtuber, themselves.

I agree, people should do what they enjoy, but at the same time I don't think that anyone should kid themselves that any particular thing they enjoy is somehow morally or artistically superior than anything else.

 No.85248

>>85247
>but they can name Pokemon
It's still 3D.

 No.85273

File:__hoshikawa_sara_and_hoshi….jpg (239.53 KB,898x1300)

I was going to write a longer post about why I hate them but most of the points I have have already been mentioned. One point that I don't think has been covered is that I believe they're riding the wave of social acceptance of Japanophilia. I've also found that fanart of them tends to dominate art websites, with talented artists dedicating themselves to drawing pictures of what are, at the end of the day, just streamers, and sometimes I have to filter them out when browsing a particular tag that they're closely associated with.

Another is that the amount of money they make is absurd. I heard from a friend who was vaguely acquainted via his former workplace with a vtuber who made something like $50000 per month from streaming alone. Why should I have to develop marketable skills and work to earn money when I could just get lucky and make fat stacks by streaming, not even putting my face out there but wearing a mask while doing so? It's ridiculous.

One of the few upsides is they seem to get alot of foot art, at the very least.

 No.85274

>>85273
those are cutely shaped feet

 No.85275

>>85273
very appealing feet

 No.85276

The only time I felt good about vtubers was with the one girl who pissed off the camwhore girls with her model and made a ton more money without ever having to show her body. If there is one good thing vtubers do it is they make 3DPD realize their inferiority to 2D.

 No.85289

>>85276
vtubers are not 2D and camwhores should have to ruin their own future prospects for their brief moment of popularity. At least with tittystreamers you get the satisfaction of knowing she's going to have to spend the rest of her life explaining herself in return for it all. These parasocial parasites are robbing people of the one equalizing element in their relationship.

>>85247
>do you consider the artist who designed the ground tile texture?
HD texture pack faithfulness arguments happen all the time.
>When playing Pokemon, do you consider the artist who designed the Pokemon screeches?
The Pikachu cry retcon had a minor shitstorm.
>When reading a LN or Manga, do you consider the material you're not seeing, that was cut or altered by the publisher?
People hate on editors forcing changes all the time. The DanMachi editor is the most hated person in the fandom.
>When watching an anime, do you question the convictions to the character a VA is voicing?
Cast interviews are popular for a reason.

All of these things are what people consider "soul" and the lack of it is often cited as one of the worst parts of the modern entertainment industry. And the fact that some of them are smart enough to target a niche audience instead of trying to compete with the established huge names doesn't make their soulless, manufactured approach to human relationships a creative endeavor or any less harmful to the people caught up in it.

>people should do what they enjoy
Friends don't let friends visit a prostitute every day any more than they let them blow their whole paycheck at the casino or take up drugs. This is an intervention. You have a problem.

 No.85307

>>85289
on topic sager

 No.85308

File:[Piyoko] Himitsu no AiPri ….jpg (150.74 KB,1920x1080)


 No.85309

>>85307
The thread deserves it.

 No.85310

File:98932473_p0.jpg (2.19 MB,1800x2400)

>>85307
on topic sagger

 No.85311

>>85307
fuck vtubahs they get the sage.

 No.85312

File:1731828622389.jpg (94.87 KB,960x540)


 No.85313

File:__nimi_nightmare_and_napli….jpg (908.22 KB,2246x2930)

i like nimi

 No.85314

friends don't let friends moe moe kyun all their money away in maid cafes.....
anonymous, please, she calls everyone goshujin-sama.............

 No.85315

>>85312
Cute chomper.

 No.85316

File:c451489ee52d033e796e5f3973….png (709.95 KB,933x1209)

>>85314
I wish I had a Patchy maid...

 No.85317

File:patchy takes a nap.jpg (436.11 KB,1275x849)

>>85316
She absolutely positively does not have the constitution or stamina to be a maid for more than five seconds.

 No.85318

>>85317
wish my computer was that soft...

 No.85319

File:f84400565f16d1b23543da0f81….png (844.47 KB,700x1058)

>>85317
That's still 5 seconds more patchy maid than no patchy maid.

 No.85320

File:ballin.jpg (830.86 KB,4096x2889)

>>85318
Ran's tails generates a mighty need to fluff and snooze.
>>85319
Fair point.

 No.85321

File:patchouli listens to hip h….png (1.65 MB,666x1000)

>>85320
she ballin




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