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File:nene1.png (596.36 KB,900x506)

 No.387[View All]

A thread for random tech chatter
If your talk ends up being well thought out and has lots of replies, consider crossboard-linking your discussion into a thread
90 posts and 12 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1813

>>1808
>>1809
I forgot to mention: One of the main things about new laptops and linux is the fact that a lot of the time the wifi driver is no good of half working. Which makes modern laptops pretty useless considering they don't have ethernet ports. At least with the ethernet port you can do the install while wired into the LAN and maybe hack the driver into working reliably (or using the Windows driver through WINE).

Rule of thumb is 6 months-year after release before a laptop is 90-100% functioning on Linux. Longer if you don't run bleeding edge kernels. Most exotic stuff might never function at all. For example, even the T14 has a huge issue with secure boot. If you delete the default keys by mistake you'll brick the machine and the only fix is to send it back to the vendor for motherboard replacement.

Archwiki is the best place to check for this kind of stuff. Here is the page for the laptop I linked above: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T14_(AMD)_Gen_1

If Linux is your goal you have to be really careful and do your research. Least you end up with something that had great hardware but forces you to run an OS you dislike. Lenovo is one of the few companies that even cares about Linux support and even they release laptops all of the time that aren't working with Linux correctly. Some things can be excused because they have no control over the kernel. But stuff like the secure keys issue is 100% on them. At least they'll respond to your help requests on their own forum and it's filled with people actively trying to debug and fix issues in Linux.

Please do not pay over $1k for any laptop. You'll regret it.

 No.1814

>>1807
I looked at the PSREF for this, unfortunately it doesn't have USB4 (which I could use for external GPU) and there are configurations with bad screens not covering 100% sRGB unless you go with higher resolution.
Newer generations do support USB4 but with all RAM soldered, and still have the screen problem. Might as well go with X13 with 32GB soldered RAM, which don't have trash screens available.

 No.1819


 No.1820

>>1814
What's the problem? Get a display port adapter for your external screens. Why are you attempting to get top of the line screen in laptop anyway? This isn't the use case for such computers.
>external GPU
Real waste of money. Why not build a desktop and save yourself a big headache?

For what you're going to spend for a laptop that doubles as both and checks all these boxes you could have had nice used laptop and decent desktop. A 12 year old desktop/cpu/gpu can run all AAA games at 60+fps at acceptable resolutions. A 6 year old desktop can do 60+fps with 4k. There is little point in what you're attempting to do. By the time you've paid for the top of the line laptop and external GPU you'll have spent more money that you would have spent on a decent desktop+laptop combo with sane system specs. If you do what you're thinking about doing you're just going to want to upgrade in a couple of years.

Trust me. Trying to make a laptop into a gaming PC is a _very_ bad idea due to CPU throttling. My laptop has a much better CPU than my desktop that I use to render/encode video. But it can't take advantage of the increased speeds because of the heat. It can only do short bursts at 100% at its top speed because the fans can't keep up and it's forced to throttle down to save itself.

I made the same mistake you're able to make in the mid-late 2000s. I tried to use laptop as my primary desktop. All that happened was I destroyed the battery twice by leaving it plugged in and charging while at 100% and the bottom of the case melted from the constant 100% pegged out CPU. It sucked for gaming. It sucked for video work. It sucked for everything that wasn't web browser, watching videos and text editing. When it finally needed parts replaced it was a big pain in the ass to fix because it wasn't designed for being serviced by anything but small chinese children's hands.

Save yourself the trouble and buy a proper desktop and decent used laptop. You don't have to drop thousands on a desktop with a decent CPU. You can get good deals on 1-3 year old desktop computers with plenty of SATA and PCIe ports for cheap. They used to be even cheaper before youtubers started shilling them and running the prices through the roof.

 No.1821

>>1820
Have had similar experience with laptops.
Had to get a "gaming laptop" (gaming laptops are a scam) for class work when I was in college, the throttle with the heating problems was so bad that I could never make full use of the specs. Every laptop in class either had heating problems or had the loudest fans, or both. Eventually had to get a desktop because I couldn't get any work done. The desktop I got for the same price as the "gaming laptop" was leagues better than the laptop; better GPU, better CPU, more storage, and most importantly better cooling. You could have the same CPU/GPU combo in a laptop and a desktop and the desktop will always win. You'll probably get performance comparable to a latest laptop with a decade old desktop minus heating problems.
Any laptop rated for anything other than web browsing is a scam, you're better off buying a desktop instead which will cost you a fraction of the laptop's price. The laptop space is absolutely saturated with marketing jargon, it's all bullcrap.

 No.1822

>>1820
>Why are you attempting to get top of the line screen in laptop anyway? This isn't the use case for such computers.
Because I go outside, unlike you it seems.
>Real waste of money. Why not build a desktop and save yourself a big headache?
I already have a desktop with a powerful GPU, which replaced an older one (still powerful enough with 8GB VRAM to run lots of games and AI models). The old GPU is just sitting there collecting dust. Why are you so against utilizing it for something useful?
>For what you're going to spend for a laptop that doubles as both and checks all these boxes you could have had nice used laptop and decent desktop.
I already have them. I have like 6 used laptops at the moment and I recently got another one for free. But none of them have a good GPU, and any "gaming" laptop with a discrete GPU would have much more thermal problems than having an external desktop GPU that I can use with my laptop.
>Trying to make a laptop into a gaming PC is a _very_ bad idea due to CPU throttling.
I go outside and travel and I'm not going to carry a full desktop with me. An external GPU is the best thing I can have on the go. Games and especially AI models are GPU-bound anyway.

 No.1823

>>1804
For various reasons second hand won't compare with new at 7/10 the price. That one also doesn't ship past the north border.

But it's interesting because I could buy new and get reimbursement on SSDs and RAM to upgrade to required. I'm not a huge fan of laptop disassembly though.

 No.1824

>>1822
Fine go ahead and waste your money. If you're resorting to
>I go outside unlike you
I know you aren't worth the time of day. They never listen.

Let us know how hauling around your external GPU when you go outside works for you.

 No.1825

>>1824
Not my fault if you can't comprehend that not all people have the same need as you. I expected the exact non technical nonsense response like this from you. The only reason that I bothered to articulate my response at all is to shine light on your self-ignorance for everyone to see. It's not the first time you did something similar here.

Let us know how hauling around your desktop when you go outside works for you. Hard mode: don't cope with "i'm so adult that don't need to play game when i travel lol".

 No.1826

File:[SubsPlease] Katsute Mahou….jpg (323.92 KB,1920x1080)

How did you guys manage to get so heated over a simple discussion about laptops...

 No.1827

>>1825
Where do you take your laptop outside that you want to play games? Normally a laptop functions as a mobile work computer. I don't understand your usecase for external GPU unless it's to use GPU processing

>>1826
passion

 No.1828

>>1827
>I don't understand your usecase for external GPU unless it's to use GPU processing
ML models. Otherwise you have to rely on external services that are paid, hoard your data, unsuitable for customized setups, and have to use network which isn't good for traveling.

 No.1831

>>1826
I'm not worked up. I tried to give him good advice and he accused me of
>never going outside
if I'd known I was dealing with an idiot I wouldn't have bothered in the first place. Let him waste his money. He'll just double down on being stupid when he finds out it was a bad idea. Don't bother trying to help people that piss into the wind then wonder why they got covered in pee.

 No.1832

going outs*de is what the norms do

 No.1833

>>1828
Let me ignore my own advice and try this one more time; A sane person would build a home server. Which could house multiple GPUs and you could run your little ML model on it then access it from anywhere in the world with an internet connection using your laptop. This is spending your money and time wisely. We even have this nifty and well proven piece of software called Xorg that will allow you to directly interact with any GUI application running on said server as if it was natively running on your lower end hardware. Been used for years by professionals and hobbyists alike. Of course. If the software is pure CLI screen and tmux works fine to.

You will regret this. If you want to find out the hard way be my guest. But there is a reason everyone that attempts them never buys another one.

 No.1834

>>1831
>I tried to give him good advice and he accused me of
>>never going outside
Let me ask you: do you? If you do extensively, you would've known how these advice you blindly reiterate from what you saw other people taking on the internet actually work out.

>>1833
>A sane person would build a home server.
>This is spending your money and time wisely.
Sure, let's ignore the money and time needed to get a suitable internet connection without the typical ISP restrictions, setting up domain/DNS and UPS, 24/7 AC to cool the server room, fending off attackers, and keep maintaining this infrastructure, while hoping your dog doesn't eat the Ethernet cable while you're out.

>then access it from anywhere in the world with an internet connection using your laptop
I see, you didn't even bother reading my post about internet connection. Have you ever tried using internet "anywhere in the world" outside your home? You have no idea how spotty these kinds of connections can be.

>We even have this nifty and well proven piece of software called Xorg that will allow you to directly interact with any GUI application running on said server as if it was natively running on your lower end hardware.
Another nonsense clearly from some who has only surface understanding on this matter. Native X11 forwarding is literally unusable outside of LAN setups due to outdated design, and you have the audacity to talk about "anywhere in the world". Do you even have any idea what Xpra is? And good luck with any gaming attempt with the internet latency.

>You will regret this. If you want to find out the hard way be my guest. But there is a reason everyone that attempts them never buys another one.
Projection of your mind isn't reality. What does "another one" mean anyway? An eGPU box doesn't need to be changed when upgrading GPUs.

 No.1835

Apparently I need a UPS because my power keeps cutting out ...

 No.1836

>>1835
>Apparently I need a UPS because my power keeps cutting out ...
i got one after a few blackouts/blips and after that only experienced one power outage
i think when its autumn and there are thunderstorms thats the biggest risk of power outs so in a few months itll be handy again

 No.1848

A Google breakup is seriously being considered now

 No.1849

>>1848
What's a Google breakup...

 No.1850


 No.1851

feel like everything he says is wrong

 No.1852

well, not the stuff that you try to use words to generate code. But use it as a tool for text complete

 No.1854

File:[SubsPlus ] Oshi no Ko - S….jpg (353.37 KB,1920x1080)

>>1853
Your site has a subsection to sell ad space but you're advertising here a second time without paying? I think that's unfair!

 No.1870

He used to be saying AI wasn't decent enough at coding. Now he's saying it's as good as someone with a few months of experience.

Kind of weird conclusion. But neat headline and change of opinions

 No.1871

To kind of clarify after watching. He's saying it's as good as a fresh graduate from a CS class who only did things for homework assignments and prepared for interviews. Basically for the entry level positions that existed solely to onboard juniors

 No.1872

Legal spyware

 No.1873

do not update to windows11

 No.1874

why am i not allowed to extract multiple files from 7z at once...

 No.1903

going to attempt to learn python again

 No.2066

>>1873
It's 'aight

 No.2067

>>2066
it is not!

 No.2068

File:4b1f070149.png (482.47 KB,1504x1239)

I'm actually surprised by how cheap a game console is compared to all the other tech things I bought recently.

 No.2150

sometimes I'm shocked that computers even work

 No.2312

what are my choices for a decent vr set that's good quality?

 No.2314

File:1466084666545.jpg (192.72 KB,1300x1244)

>>2312
My recommendation would be: Quest 2 if you just want something cheap and don't mind buying used, Quest 3s if you're getting into VR for the first time and want something new but decently priced, Quest 3 if you're okay spending a bit more but want the best standalone headset, and Quest Pro if you have more money than sense and get really into VR and want face and eye tracking for some reason. You can consider Pico if you don't live in North America, but I'm frankly unsure if they'll continue selling in Western markets because their sales have been quite poor; they also have a reputation for dropping support for their last headset as soon as they release a new one. If you buy used, I would caution that you don't end up buying the headset by itself. With the Quest headsets, I'm fairly certain you can only enable hand-tracking after you've set the headset up using the controllers.

Below is a more in-depth comparison, with dropdowns, for the headsets I mentioned.

Worldwide:
Quest 2: Good quality, very cheap ($100 - $150 used)+++ Lots of third-party accessories
+++ Usable for PCVR via local WiFi streaming (does not use internet)
+++ 120Hz displays
+++ Very wide selection of standalone apps & games
++ Wireless (Battery life ~2 hours, extendable to ~10 hours with a 10,000 mAh USB C PD battery pack or longer with a larger battery)
++ AA battery-powered controllers (30 hours or more with a single rechargeable AA)
+ Fairly high resolution (1920 x 1832 per eye)
+ Hand-tracking
+ Can use either the default controllers or the Quest Pro controllers (Quest Pro controllers are self-tracking)
+ WiFi 6
+ Good microphone
~ Decent FOV (97° horizontal, 93° vertical)
~ Standalone (OS built into the headset itself, does not require a PC to use)
~ No longer in production; You will have to buy used.
~ Controllers have a tracking ring
~ Single LCD display
- Black and white, low-resolution passthrough (Uses the IR tracking cameras)
- Controllers need to be within line-of-sight of the tracking cameras, otherwise they lose tracking
-- Uncomfortable to use with glasses (Prescription lens inserts available from third-parties, such as VR Optician)
-- Fresnel lenses (high glare in contrasty scenes, slight chromatic aberration at lens fringes, "low detail"; easy to get used to, however)
-- No manual IPD slider (3 notch settings; may be an issue if your eyes aren't a "normal" distance apart)
-- FOV dependent on IPD (FOV ranges between 85° and 97° depending on IPD)
-- Poor default comfort (You likely will want to buy a third-party headstrap, replacement facial interface, controller grips, glasses protectors so your
glasses don't scratch the lenses, etc.)
-- Requires a Meta account, and need to use the Meta/Oculus app to setup headset (Only required on first setup; headset can be used without internet)
-- Still receiving updates, but slated to lose support eventually

Quest 3s: Good quality, decent price ($300 new, ~$250 used) -- minor upgrades over the Quest 2+++ Lots of third-party accessories
+++ Usable for PCVR via local WiFi streaming (does not use internet)
+++ 120Hz displays
+++ Very wide selection of standalone apps & games
++ Wireless (Battery life ~2 hours, extendable to ~10 hours with a 10,000 mAh USB C PD battery pack or longer with a larger battery)
++ AA battery-powered controllers (30 hours or more with a single rechargeable AA)
+ WiFi 6E
+ Fairly high resolution (1920 x 1832 per eye)
+ Hand-tracking
+ Can use either the default controllers or the Quest Pro controllers (Quest Pro controllers are self-tracking)
+ Currently in-production. Can buy either new or used.
+ Actively receiving updates.
+ Color passthrough (passthrough quality is highly dependent on indoor lighting; higher brightness will look better)
+ Controllers do not have a tracking ring
+ Good microphone
~ Decent FOV (97° horizontal, 93° vertical)
~ Standalone (OS built into the headset itself, does not require a PC to use)
~ Single LCD Display
- Controllers need to be within line-of-sight of the tracking cameras, otherwise they lose tracking
-- Uncomfortable to use with glasses (Prescription lens inserts available from third-parties, such as VR Optician)
-- Fresnel lenses (high glare in contrasty scenes, slight chromatic aberration at lens fringes, "low detail"; easy to get used to, however)
-- No manual IPD slider (3 notch settings; may be an issue if your eyes aren't a "normal" distance apart)
-- FOV dependent on IPD (FOV ranges between 85° and 97° depending on IPD)
-- Poor default comfort (You likely will want to buy a third-party headstrap, replacement facial interface, controller grips, glasses protectors so your glasses don't scratch the lenses, etc.)
-- Requires a Meta account, and need to use the Meta/Oculus app to setup headset (Only required on first setup; headset can be used without internet)

Quest Pro: Good quality, over-priced (~$900 new, ~$800 used)+++ Usable for PCVR via local WiFi streaming (does not use internet)
+++ Very wide selection of standalone apps & games
++ Wireless (Battery life ~2 hours, extendable to ~10 hours with a 10,000 mAh USB C PD battery pack or longer with a larger battery)
++ Controllers are self-tracking and do NOT need to be within line-of-sight of the tracking cameras
++ Pancake lenses (minor glare in contrasty scenes, "high detail" and very clear to see through)
++ Manual IPD slider (55-75mm)
++ Comfortable to use with glasses (Prescription lens inserts also available from third-parties, such as VR Optician)
+ 90Hz displays
+ WiFi 6E
+ Some third-party accessories
+ Fairly high resolution (1920 x 1800 per eye)
+ Hand-tracking
+ Eye-tracking
+ Face-tracking
+ Can use either the default controllers or the Quest Pro controllers (Quest Pro controllers )
+ Currently in-production. Can buy either new or used.
+ Actively receiving updates.
+ Controllers do not have a tracking ring
+ Good FOV (106° horizontal, 96° vertical)
~ Color passthrough (uses a mix between the black and white tracking cameras and the color passthrough camera, which results in color-fringing similar to an analog TV station that has poor reception)
~ Rechargeable controllers (~8 hours of usage; does not use AAs)
~ Standalone (OS built into the headset itself, does not require a PC to use)
~ Independent displays per eye (Displays use LCDs with local dimming, which can cause bloom)
~ Ability to remove light blockers so you can see downwards and slightly within your peripheral vision
- Poor microphone (Tends to have popping)
- Tends to get noticeably warm with usage
-- Poor binocular overlap (May be more nauseating and harder to adjust to that usual)
-- Integrated headstrap (There is no real availability for altering the default comfort)
-- Requires a Meta account, and need to use the Meta/Oculus app to setup headset (Only required on first setup; headset can be used without internet)

Quest 3: Very Good quality, decent price ($500 new, ~$350 used)+++ Lots of third-party accessories
+++ Usable for PCVR via local WiFi streaming (does not use internet)
+++ Very wide selection of standalone apps & games
+++ 120Hz displays
++ Wireless (Battery life ~2 hours, extendable to ~10 hours with a 10,000 mAh USB C PD battery pack or longer with a larger battery)
++ AA battery-powered controllers (30 hours or more with a single rechargeable AA)
++ Pancake lenses (minor glare in contrasty scenes, "high detail" and very clear to see through)
++ Manual IPD slider (58-71mm)
+ WiFi 6E
+ Fairly high resolution (2064 x 2208 per eye)
+ Hand-tracking
+ Can use either the default controllers or the Quest Pro controllers (Quest Pro controllers are self-tracking)
+ Currently in-production. Can buy either new or used. (128GB model discontinued)
+ Actively receiving updates.
+ Color passthrough (passthrough quality is highly dependent on indoor lighting; higher brightness will look better)
+ Controllers do not have a tracking ring
+ Good FOV (110° horizontal, 96° vertical)
+ Good microphone
~ Standalone (OS built into the headset itself, does not require a PC to use)
~ Independent displays per eye
- Controllers need to be within line-of-sight of the tracking cameras, otherwise they lose tracking
-- Uncomfortable to use with glasses (Prescription lens inserts available from third-parties, such as VR Optician)
-- Poor default comfort (You likely will want to buy a third-party headstrap, replacement facial interface, controller grips, glasses protectors so your glasses don't scratch the lenses, etc.)
-- Requires a Meta account, and need to use the Meta/Oculus app to setup headset (Only required on first setup; headset can be used without internet)

Europe/Asia Only:
Pico 4: Good quality, fairly cheap (~£200/~€200 used)+++ Usable for PCVR via local WiFi streaming (does not use internet)
++ Wireless (Battery life ~2 hours, extendable to ~10 hours with a 10,000 mAh USB C PD battery pack or longer with a larger battery)
++ AA battery-powered controllers (20 hours or more with a two rechargeable AAs)
++ Pancake lenses (minor glare in contrasty scenes, "high detail" and very clear to see through)
++ Manual IPD slider (62-72mm)
++ Comfortable to use with glasses (Prescription lens inserts also available from third-parties, such as VR Optician)
+ 90Hz displays
+ WiFi 6
+ Some third-party accessories
+ Fairly high resolution (2160 x 2160 per eye)
+ Hand-tracking
+ Actively receiving updates.
+ Good FOV (104° horizontal, 103° vertical)
+ Fairly good comfort
~ Decent selection of standalone apps & games
~ Decent microphone
~ No longer in production; You will have to buy used.
~ Controllers have a tracking ring
~ Color passthrough (Non-depth corrected; Appears like a 2D image rather than stereoscopic 3D, causing difficulty picking up items or interacting with things IRL)
~ Rechargeable controllers (~8 hours of usage; does not use AAs)
~ Standalone (OS built into the headset itself, does not require a PC to use)
~ Independent displays per eye (Displays use LCDs with local dimming, which can cause bloom)
~ Integrated headstrap (There is no real availability for altering the default comfort)
-- Requires a Pico account (Only required on first setup; headset can be used without internet)
--- Questionable long-term support (Pico also isn't doing well in the VR market)
--- Not available in North America (Pico is owned by the ByteDance, owner of TikTok)

Pico 4 Ultra: Good quality, over-priced (~£440/~€500 new)+++ Usable for PCVR via local WiFi streaming (does not use internet)
++ Wireless (Battery life ~2 hours, extendable to ~10 hours with a 10,000 mAh USB C PD battery pack or longer with a larger battery)
++ AA battery-powered controllers (20 hours or more with a two rechargeable AAs)
++ Pancake lenses (minor glare in contrasty scenes, "high detail" and very clear to see through)
++ Manual IPD slider (58-72mm)
++ Comfortable to use with glasses
+ 90Hz displays
+ WiFi 6E
+ Fairly high resolution (2160 x 2160 per eye)
+ Hand-tracking
+ Currently in-production. Not really any used headsets available.
+ Actively receiving updates.
+ Controllers do not have a tracking ring
+ Good FOV (104° horizontal, 103° vertical)
+ Fairly good comfort
~ Decent selection of standalone apps & games
~ Decent Microphone
~ Color passthrough
~ Standalone (OS built into the headset itself, does not require a PC to use)
~ Independent displays per eye (Displays use LCDs with local dimming, which can cause bloom)
~ Integrated headstrap (There is no real availability for altering the default comfort)
-- Basically no third-party accessories
-- Requires a Pico account (Only required on first setup; headset can be used without internet)
--- Questionable long-term support (Pico also isn't doing well in the VR market)
--- Not available in North America (Pico is owned by the ByteDance, owner of TikTok)

More Technical Comparisons from VRcompare:
https://vr-compare.com/compare?h1=0q3goALzg&h2=dC53TrTC0&h3=pDTZ02PkT&h4=-MpSqv-rB
https://vr-compare.com/compare?h1=W8bStYZ3H&h2=1qnvNfJKq

 No.2317

Got a SIM card for my laptop. Only took a few minutes for stuff to update and to find cell service and direct me to a portal to active service, but then actually having my laptop receive internet from my cell provider took like 12 hours. It genuinely makes me wonder if there's just some guy somewhere that has a dashboard like "+1 (555) 555-5555 has activated their service plan. Enable data? Y/n" because it seems incomprehensible why it should take so long and it seems like a pretty standard issue. When I set up my phone a few years ago the same thing happened where it was taking forever, and just calling some number to complain caused my phone's cell service to activate a few minutes later. I don't understand why this isn't a faster process -- and if it is automated, what's the issue that's causing it to take so long?

 No.2318

>>2314
Very detailed post. I'm thinking that i would want the pro because there won't be much improvement in the tech besides easier use

 No.2319

I'm also a glasses wearer and slightly hypertrophic (astigmatism) so i need glasses

 No.2322

File:0-d0d04571b209cb88.jpg (85.54 KB,800x800)

>>2318
>>2319
I honestly think the Quest Pro would be a bad first choice for VR... Maybe I should have been more forceful in my rhetoric, but genuinely, the only reason to buy a Quest Pro is for the face and eye tracking. The Quest 3 is a significantly better all-around headset. If you need to wear glasses, I would recommend getting a pair of lens inserts from VR Optician. Lens inserts just snap onto the lenses of the VR headset so that you don't need to wear a pair of glasses inside the headset. Not having to wear glasses within the headset also improves FOV because your eyes will be closer to the displays and is significantly more comfortable for longer usage.

 No.2323

>>2317
Internet speeds seemed oddly bad compared to my phone, but then I remembered that when I was installing the antennas in my laptop, there were these copper pads connected to the antenna wires. I didn't thinking much of it, and just put the copper pads on top of some foam padding that was where the copper pads needed to go. Turns out, maybe those copper pads need to be completely flat and not bumpy to get good reception... Thankfully, I was able to lift the foam padding with their adhesive still attached, and then press those copper antenna pads flat, and then put the foam padding on top of the copper pads. And, well... Now things seem to be working a lot better. I was getting like 1-4 Mb/s before, and now I'm getting closer to 12-20 Mb/s, so big improvement.

 No.2327

>>2322
From what their store website says they won't even ship a pro to me in Canada. So idk. I might just need to pay the sort of premium on lenses after I get a 3 and see what the problems are.

But my other point was is the technology actually going to get much better?

 No.2328

File:1438338732715.png (258.43 KB,918x669)

>>2327
>is the technology actually going to get much better?
VR hardware, for all intents and purposes, has the potential to improve, but I don't believe any mass market devices -- at competitive and affordable prices -- will significantly improve within the next few years.

If I really had to guess, I would say that within the next 2-3 years it's possible that Meta will release a 2560 x 2560 per eye headset, likely running at 90Hz. 120Hz if you're optimistic. It's unlikely that it would include face- and eye-tracking since Meta has said that they cancelled their plans for a Quest Pro 2. FoV would likely remain the same as the Quest 3 at 110° HFov x 96° VFoV. Price would likely be the same as, or potentially higher than the Quest 3. General design is likely to follow the trend of the Quest having removable facial interface and headstrap, allowing for third-party accessories, as opposed to having an integrated battery counterweight headstrap (like seen on the Quest Pro). I would expect that Google/Samsung, Lenovo, and potentially Apple are all targeting similar specifications.

To understand VR development, you first have to understand that there are two philosophies of VR: mobile SoC powered standalone VR, and PC powered wired VR. The hardware exists for >=150° FoV, for >=120Hz displays, for high contrast uOLED displays, for 4K x 4K per eye resolution, for face-, eye-, and hand-tracking, inside-out tracking, and wireless VR. Putting all of that into a single headset, however, has various challenges.

The PC side of things is currently much closer to that than standalone is, but everyone can see that base station SteamVR tracking is a dead-end and that inside-out, wireless VR is the future; particularly as Valve has ceased production of SteamVR 2.0 base stations and given HTC full rights to produce them in their place. PCVR, as a result, is currently in a hardware lull, waiting for Valve to release the headset they've been working on for the last few years to see what they do. Valve, and SteamVR, is really the linchpin that PCVR relies on for hardware direction and software support, which is why the rumors about what they're doing with their next headset are so significant. Regardless, PCVR tends to appeal to more niche, high-end users so they can easily charge >=$1K for a headset by itself. The options are essentially Bigscreen Beyond ($1000, headset only, ~$600 SteamVR basestation and controllers setup required in addition), Pimax ($1000-2000 range, headset only, requires SteamVR setup), and Varjo ($1-4K, enterprise subscription required for some headsets, SteamVR setup required), and Valve Index (completely out-of-date -- nearly 6 years old -- overpriced at $1K, and now completely outclassed by the Quest 3).

Standalone, by contrast, is much more mass market focused, and price conscious. Currently, the biggest thing holding it back is mobile SoC performance: high resolution displays are available currently, but there aren't many SoC's available that can do much more than around 2160 x 2160 per eye. Apple's Vision Pro is standalone and runs at ~3660x3200 @ 100Hz, but to do so they essentially put a desktop class M2 processor and a co-processor inside and the headset itself costs $3500 -- but in typical Apple fashion, they refused to design the headset with controllers so it's unusable for gaming. As a result, if you wanted to use it for PCVR and have controllers, you could potentially integrate it into a PC SteamVR-tracked setup, but that would cost somewhere in the range of an additional $750. Standalone, wireless PCVR is also limited by WiFi development. By my hazy calculations, 2160 x 2160 @ 120 Hz per eye would require 31Gbit/s, which... That's a far cry even for WiFi 7 6GHz, which tops out at 5.8Gbit/s. So, naturally, wireless standalone PCVR is based on transcoding on the PC and decoding video on the headset. The primary app for which is Virtual Desktop, which tops out at 200Mbit/s. You can at least use HEVC 10-bit encoding, or AV1 10-bit encoding, but either way standalone PCVR streaming is certainly compressed compared to wired PCVR. It's a bit better than YouTube compression, I would say, and it's something one can get used to and ignore. At most, you may notice color banding. Wired PCVR snobs will say the compression is unbearable, but I wouldn't put much stake in their opinions. The one truth, however, is that all of that transcoding and decoding and wireless sending and receiving does add some additional latency. For a typical WiFi environment, at the maximum bitrate and resolution, it's somewhere in the 50ms range. For a very poor WiFi environment (like in a multi-story apartment with overlapping WiFi signals), and using the 2.4GHz band as opposed to the 5GHz or 6GHz band, it could lean towards 120ms of latency -- this would be an usual, worst-case scenario, however. So long as you have at least a WiFi 6 AX router, and the access point is located in the same room as you want to play VR, you should get more towards the 50ms latency range. Having an access point in the same room is very important. If you have a house, for example, and your access point is on the second floor and you want to play in the basement, that would be more akin to a worst-case scenario because of WiFi attenuation through multiple walls.

As far as the development of standalone VR itself is concerned, Meta is the biggest and most influential company in this space, but there's been a lot less VR news since the AI boom. The Quest 3 was in the pipeline for a while and released a little over a year ago, but since then there's basically been a drought in terms of new hardware news and releases, with the exception of the Quest 3s which is essentially just a Quest 2 revision. Again, lots of people are putting their faith in rumors that Valve is working on a VR headset and hoping it gets announced some time this year to introduce more interest in VR. The biggest shakeup in standalone VR is that Meta has said that they'll allow other manufacturers to use their Horizon OS, which is the OS that the Quest headsets use, for their headsets going forward. We know that Lenovo is working with Meta to release their own VR headset using their OS. Meta's Horizon OS is Android-based, but Google has previously announced that they were working with Samsung to design their own headset using their own Android-based OS. Prior to the release of the Apple Vision Pro, there were rumors that Samsung was designing an Apple Vision Pro competitor, but since the Apple Vision Pro release I haven't heard any follow-up news on this front, especially since their announcement that they were working with Google to design a headset. Presumably, they've likely scrapped their Apple Vision Pro competitor headset and are now working on a Quest 3 priced headset in the $300-500 range. Apple has also said that they're working on a lower-priced more mass market VR headset, but it's anyone's guess what that will take the form of.

 No.2344

>>2322
I'm actually quite curious about how glasses will be needed because I don't do things right up in my face normally and I dunno if it's normal for me to not be able to read something up against my nose.

This VR stuff is very difficult to judge on a first time if you don't have perfect optical.

I assume most people buy the glasses for AR, but if I need actual astigmatism lenses I'm going to need a custom order. Conveniently my sister can do custom orders on prescription lenses for me and possibly make them herself but this is quite a nightmare.

 No.2345

File:17261d796d.png (183.49 KB,716x675)

Lenses will always be cheaper than contacts so it would make more sense to buy what I need... but man... they really did not think this through. It should be an absolute requirement for glasses to be usable with them
(pic are 2week contacts)

 No.2351

File:20250127_184631.jpg (1.61 MB,1848x4000)

This stupid technology. I have no idea how bad the image quality will be without lenses. So i might not even be able to use it if I get it. Then I might get motion sickness and have to train myself not to experience it.
My glasses are myopia grade but i have +0.75 on both eyes so at a cerain range i can't see up close

What the fuck are they doing? Do they really expect me to buy and swap lut lenses depending on if it's AR or VR?
This technology is never catching on

 No.2355

OH WOW so the VR set uses lenses inside and these conflict with your eye's focal length if you have myopia(nearsight) worse than 20:20 vission. This is so fucking stupid. So I guess I don't need to worry about any farsighted issues related to myopia astigmatism. So I could probably just get standard minus lenses.
PROBABLY because there's like zero information outside of Reddit anecdotes for a very common visual acuity issue
Jesus christ. what the fuck are they doing

 No.2408

File:tv-size-distance-chart-139….png (14.47 KB,547x461)

>>2344
>I dunno if it's normal for me to not be able to read something up against my nose.
It's not. Most things are done at approximately arms length or farther. Because the screens and lenses are a fixed distance, regardless of how your brain can interpret flat images as having depth, the fixed focal length makes it hard to clearly see things that are held at extremely close distances. You can only generally clearly see things clearly beyond about 10-20cm from your face. Your eyes will struggle to focus any closer.

A few years ago there was much hope about this issue being resolved because one company had developed solid-state "vari-focal" lenses that were extremely thin (consider, to otherwise adjust focal length you need would an additional, secondary lens that moves between the primary lens and the screen, which would add considerable bulk; think about an adjustable 1-4x gun scope, for reference). Combined with eye-tracking and 3D depth information, you could therefore dynamically adjust focal length, which would greatly improve comfort. Unfortunately, it seems that technology is going to be stuck in the lab.

>I assume most people buy the glasses for AR
No. They buy they lense inserts because it is generally still the case that if you cannot clearly see something at X distance IRL, you will not be able to clearly see it in VR at said distance either.

>these conflict with your eye's focal length if you have myopia(nearsight) worse than 20:20 vission
Yes, but consider the resolvable detail within a VR headset. Most headsets are in the range of 20PPD (pixels per degree). Typical human vision is approximately 60PPD, with younger people closer to 80PPD. 40PPD is seen as the baseline for "close enough" to human vision. As such, because the resolved detail of displays and optics is so much lower than what your eyes are capable of resolving, diopter corrections within ±0.5D are likely insignificant enough to not need any correction. Greater than ±1D would likely benefit from corrective lenses. 30PPD is apparently approximately equal to 20/40 vision for reference. The Quest 3 is approximately 22PPD. The Apple Vision Pro is around 33PPD.

You can mess with these sites for a rough idea of things:
https://phrogz.net/tmp/ScreenDensityCalculator.html
https://www.billauer.co.il/simulator.html

It's a shame, but there's no one site that provides PPD to 20/X vision measurements.

 No.2409

>>2408
>It's a shame, but there's no one site that provides PPD to 20/X vision measurements.
Sorry, I'm stupid and tired. The approximate PPD to diopter equation is probably something like: Diopters = 1 - PPD/60. For the Quest 3 at around 20.7PPD, that's like -0.65D. This is not a correction factor. This a rough equivalence in visual acuity between Diopters and PPD in terms of the ability to resolve detail.

 No.2410

Alright. I got the Q3 and I'll see about ordering some lenses in my typical prescription




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