No.1263
Have fun! Umineko is amazing, especially when it's fully voice acted with the ps3 version.
No.1264
>>1262>I'm using some PS3 patch thing with the 'Witch Hunt'.Oops, I mean the 'Witch Hunt' translation.
Anyway, I do have a complaint already. Some of the text is actually filling the box which means it overlays on top of the title text in the lower right corner. Maybe this is a prologue-only thing, because that seems like a huge oversight. Text over text is not good...
No.1266
>>1265She's got a bit of the 'tism, sure, but she's also 9 years old.
No.1267
Also, it's a shame you're not playing with the original sprites...
No.1270
>>1267I don't see any option to try them out, but this program makes it seem like it's just PS3 with the voices and all the other engine improvements or... nothing. I don't want to go through a bunch of FAQs again to find some option to see the portraits for a little bit before changing them back. I'm sorry, I just can't do the originals. I did it for parts of Higurashi and it took me away from the serious parts. These backgrounds are also really nice. Are the original Umineko backgrounds like Higurashi and it's real life pictures with a 'cartoon' filter applied?
Here's the thread where I was figuring this stuff out:
>>646 No.1271
>>1263I liked the voice acting but also ended up skipping most of it since it was so much slower than reading, I feel like if I had listened to all of it my play time would've doubled and I hate sitting still. But if voices help him get into the flow then I'm sure OP's gonna love it. Already wondering who his favorite will be...
>>1265>>1266Maria's got a special case of early onset chuunibyou. She'll have her day.
No.1272
>>1270That's too bad, I thought the patch let you choose.
>Are the original Umineko backgrounds like Higurashi and it's real life pictures with a 'cartoon' filter applied?Yeah, this is what it looks like in real life:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%AB-Furukawa_Gardens No.1273
>>1269Ah, maybe that explains it. I'm terrible at recognizing voices. What an amazing voice.
>>1271I'd say in most voiced VNs/games I listen to about half the voice lines except for very nice voices. I have the same reasoning as you, it's much faster to just read it and that's one of the major appeals of a VN over anime- fast information. Talking is so inefficient.
No.1276
>>1275-Kinzo's voice acting is very good
BEATORIIIIIICHEEEEE
*Ahem.*
Yes, the first one is fairly different from the rest of the question arcs. This part is laying the groundwork for everyone's motivations.
No.1277
>>1275>I did find it a bit hard to get through the part where the siblings confronted the oldest brother and there was an argument about money for such a long period of time.This may seem annoying, but it's very integral to the story. I wouldn't write it off as just some throwaway thing for the sake of SoL drama.
No.1279
Pic related is an example of the "text on text" thing I was talking about at the beginning. It's legible, but not exactly comfortable to read.
>>1276>>1277Yeah, I figured the stuff was important, but it's why it's so hard for me to start new things. The beginning is usually a slog as it establishes atmosphere and characters and other stuff. I prefer media that starts with something dramatic and then does the narrative groundwork after it grabs your interest.
>>1278Yeah, that's me. I thought I had that thread I made about it a couple years ago (with a Kotoko image) saved to my drive, but I guess not. It's pretty awkward right now and I'll have to try to make improvements. The drawing tablet is definitely heavier than this thing is meant to hold, but it works- I just can't get it to hold at the ideal height.
No.1280
in medias res more like in medias BEST
No.1282
>>1281Oh, actually that's not really necessary as between my post and yours I see an option to change text boxes. I might get that, though, because the one with this text is also the simple "dark black semi-transparent" option that I prefer in these situations.
Now if I can just figure out where the "automode" hotkey is hiding...
No.1299
>>1297Just wait until Chapter 4 if you feel bad for Maria now...
No.1300
Oh. I guess it is being direct about it, huh. I guess people were being nice and avoiding spoilers when they were talking about relations between these. Chapter 2 complete.
I guess I can give some opinions/theories of mine:
- Beatrice seems like a tragic figure presented as pure evil, but those glimpses of concern and joy for common human things makes me think otherwise. She seems lonely, and also that she might want to lose and die somehow? She seems very emotional for someone that is "bored" and could only enjoy the suffering of others. But, it's also possible she's just pure evil and she's a good actor and is friendly to humans to enhance the feeling of betrayal. I'm not so sure of that, though.
I want to think that something that came after Higurashi wouldn't abandon its wonderfully beautiful premise of even the ultimate villain finding healing and redemption and a place to belong among the others. Gou/Sotsu seems to make it clear that there are purely evil witches out there, though, so I guess that's been thrown out somewhere in Umineko? Disappointing if true.
- The "witches are real and you the reader can see them and their magic, but the main character must refuse it even though he's talking to a witch in a magical dimension right now" thing is kind of awkward. I love the story so far, but this part is kind of bizarre. But, maybe this is an intentional subversion and I'm supposed to feel this way?
- I did a "glimpse test" of the OP video and saw a direct reference to Chapter 2 (Shannon and George on the date). I'm glad I've been trained to avoid looking at these opening videos since they love to casually spoil things. This plays at the beginning of every chapter so they REALLY want you to be spoiled. Why do they do this? I'm guessing this is a PS3 thing so at least people that read the original can experience the story properly.
- I hate Eva, but I imagine everyone does at this point in the story. I expect a humanizing arc for her soon and presumably Krauss and Rudolf who still seem like pure garbage right now.
- Servants (excluding the chef guy) being magical artificial beings was certainly unexpected. Were they created from nothing or was Battler's short time as 'furniture' in Beatrice's magical dimension thing a glimpse of how they're made?
- Every time I see the butterfly animation and it suddenly stops I think my computer or the program crashed. It's kind of abrupt.
- I don't think I can pick a favorite character, or rather it's premature. Stuff is pretty boring when the adult siblings are together, though. The story improves when most of them die
- I wonder if the portrait's epitaph is actually something a reader can solve. Higurashi had a little "what do you think is going on?" thing at the end of each chapter and Ryukishi encouraged the reader to come up with theories, but the "reality" was something no one could have actually predicted.
No.1302
>>1301Mmmmmnn jelly.
I love jelly.
No.1303
>>1300>main character must refuse itYou can refuse it as well. In fact, it's solvable from the very beginning, and it's never going to give you the full solution. Either you solve it yourself, or you don't. I didn't.
>I wonder if the portrait's epitaph is actually something a reader can solve.You can, but only in Japanese iirc, and even then it's super tough.
No.1304
>>1300>witches are real and you the reader can see them and their magic, but the main character must refuse it even though he's talking to a witch in a magical dimension right nowThese interactions are happening in a different dimensional plane, Battler rejects the existence of witches in "the real world" aka what happens on the island in 1986. Also keep in mind that the events in the real world are not narrated by an omniscient narrator, so when the game describes magical stuff happening on the island, Battler is able to deny those events being real because they are missing the perspective of his "piece" on the "game board" aka real world Battler.>I wonder if the portrait's epitaph is actually something a reader can solve(not really a spoiler)
It involves word play with the formation of Chinese characters and the game only gives you one subtle hint before telling you the solution, don't bother. No.1306
>>1305That's two or three extra zeroes. I like Ryukishi's stuff but he's terrible at writing the mystery part.
No.1307
>>1305There's two or three missing zeroes. I like Ryukishi's stuff but I'm terrible at understanding the mystery part.
No.1311
Chapter 3 complete. Hmm... that one was really great. Lots of fantastic, emotional scenes and the magical stuff was very surreal, in all the right ways.
Just like Higurashi, Umineko is doing a fantastic job of talking about emotion, life, friends and family, and the purpose of it all and I love it since that's what I love so much about Higurashi. It really speaks to me.
Did dai do the music for this one, too? It seems quite similar to Higurashi and it's beautiful. Although, so far, it doesn't have the emotional pull of some of the Higurashi stuff. Higurashi didn't bring out the big guns like 'You' or 'Birth and Death' in Chapter 3, though, so I shouldn't say anything. It's some massive shoes to fill, obviously.
The ascension scene for Eva Beatrice really did a good job of seeming grandiose and otherworldly, especially the music. I don't know if Chapter 3 counts as humanizing Eva, because I hate her even more now. It was nice to see the adult siblings do something other than talk about money, and they rightfully proved themselves more useful than the kids in previous games. Multiple characters made reference to Kinzo's love of Westerns, but I saw 'Dirty Harry' in Rudolph (pic related). The villain in that one is a sniper and this chapter introduced magical snipers. Dirty Harry is based on the Zodiac killer, too, so I don't think this is a coincidence in a story involving runes and murder mysteries.
Yeah, there was no way I was going to answer the epitaph. My guess was sweetfish referred to the sweet smell of Kinzo's study, but I didn't even make a guess with anything else.
I thought the game was Beatrice's loss or invalidated early on because Beatrice said in red that there were 18 humans on the island, but the old lady was revealed to be a witch so there was someone unaccounted for, but they never appeared. I guess in the end it was maybe all a grand illusion and that other witch might not even exist? Maybe Chapter 4 will answer that?.
Ronove is a cool character and
I still have faith in BeatriceAlthough I'm generally bad at recognizing voices, I recognized
Asmodeus as being the voice of Camyu and I looked it up and saw that she's also the voice of Shannon, but I never would have guessed.
I notice on the menu that it goes: Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4, but then 'Chapters 5, 6, 7, 8' all grouped together. I wonder if that means the 'playtime' of that is equal to the length of the previous chapters.
Also, I'm taking hundreds of screenshots so I guess I'll upload them all when I'm done. I can't imagine anyone has a use for them, including myself, but ehhh.
>>1310VNs are really meant to be read all at once for maximum escapism. The real world doesn't exist while I'm in there for days at a time. It's another reason why it takes me a while to start one. I need to be sure that nothing else will happen.
No.1312
>>1311>I notice on the menu that it goes: Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4, but then 'Chapters 5, 6, 7, 8' all grouped together. I wonder if that means the 'playtime' of that is equal to the length of the previous chapters.Nope, it's about the same length.
No.1313
>>1312*As all 4 of the first chapters grouped together
No.1315
>>1311>I hate her even more nowcoughlaughed at this one
magical stuff is ascended in general and there's more where that came from
dlanor et al are my favorites
No.1325
>>1321Episode 4 is treated as the peak by many for how it plays to all of those emotional beats of Higurashi and such. But some people have a bit of an issue after it because R07's editor and best bud died in between that and chiru so some people think there was a bit lost, but that didn't really stop me from enjoying the rest of the VN. Chiru even managed to have some of my favorite parts in it too.
No.1328
It really seems like every adult sibling, save Rudolf, is by default a huge jerk, while their partners are great people. Rudolf was introduced as a shallow, womanizing jerk at the very beginning, but he quickly became one of my favorite characters. He clearly has great respect for his wife and is protective of his family and you see that even in the first chapter. Hmm. Speaking of, he said that he was expecting to die way back in the first chapter and wanted to talk to his family as it may have been the last time they would get the chance. He knew something way back in Chapter 1 even before anyone was killed?
Anyway, his words lack the venom of the other siblings during the table confrontations, which might surprise people when they see how he talks to Battler. However, Battler and Rudolf exchanging casual insults indicate to me a close bond, perhaps the strongest bond in the story in regards to the biological Ushiromiya parents. I hope he will get more backstory.
Also he knows the Konami code!
No.1330
>>1327I think it's more every episode is presenting a different "theory" to the events of the night. Where the witches are more of a thing that take place in the meta.
No.1333
>>1325Doesn't help that 7 and 8 are so different from everything else. I've seen a lot of people say they dropped it on 8, but 7 is the one that seems to me the most... complicated. Though I remember 5 and 6 being really good with all the characters they introduced. I mean, imagine Umineko without Erika.
>>1328>exchanging casual insults indicate to me a close bondSame, great stuff. Especially after being estranged for six years, bouncing back like that is huge.
>>1330Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought each version of the incident
came from/was formulated as a message in a bottle, and what the meta world was observing was
an enactment of one of those stories, which is why
the goats tear apart the island/story with their theories.
No.1334
Chapter 4 (and the tea party and ???? thing) complete.
Hmmm.... it really was a truly fantastic, beautiful chapter. The way everything tied together truly made for a wonderful conclusion. The comic relief loser flag thing was quite entertaining. There's a talent that is truly on display during these moments talking about power levels. Yeah, this one was certainly made to be a bit silly, but the excitement was still there. The George and Jessica battles reminded me a lot of Akasaka in Higurashi.
Very happy to see Marie get a resolution with Satorou. So "uu" wasn't a mental scar from Satorou, but a magical incantation to be with her happy, loving mother and not the black witch "version"? Wow, what a beautiful reveal. Ange's story is very emotional as well, but Marie really stole the show with her strength and beautiful soul. Marie is a serious contender to "most emotional story in a media I've experienced". So much suffering, yet her innocence created magic and she kept her smile and even spread smiles to others. Hats off to Ryukishi07. (and why did you make Gou/Sotsu and a gacha...)
I'm happy to see more development with Beatrice. So, she has a relation to Battler somehow, huh. I'm guessing she is why he's been away from the island for six years. He has a strong desire to reject witch Beatrice, but does that mean he would be confirming her regular human death? Bern and Lambda said Beatrice can never win...
No.1336
>>1334I can see why you'd like her so much. She really is a strong girl. Though... that may be truer for her witch form than her real one. I don't remember it well.
>>1335It's generally assumed that the two split during Saikoroshi when she
killed her mother, but that's not exactly canon. Gou would've been a big deal if it had finally addressed it.
No.1347
Completed Chapter 5 and I'm a few hours into 6.
5 was definitely a step down from 4, but I think it's about equal to 1 and 2.
I understand that it's supposed to have an atmosphere of the game being defiled, but it just seemed to abandon too much of what I liked. I don't like the over-use of the red and blue text, although the gold text at the end of Chapter 5's "????" bonus chapter thingie was really awesome.
This is the first time I used 'fast forward' to skip text, during the great trial when it felt like going through the evidence for such a long period of time. "A happened, so here is red text. B happened, so here is red text. C? But blue text? No, C is red text. Kinda lame. It used to be significant and I paid attention to it, like the 18 humans on the island which I kept in the back of my mind and turned out to be significant later on. Again, though, maybe that's an intentional debasement of the game, but it does have the effect of making the world less interesting to me as a reader. It feels mechanical.
Some parts of it were really nice, though, like Kinzo being dead and battle to maintain the illusion. Everything with Beatrice was great and nearly everything with Erika was awful.
I said this early on in the thread, but I like Natsuhi. Chapter 5 made me like her even more. What a strong and honorable woman, yet vulnerable inside and you want to give her a big hug and cheer her up. Battler using his new game master powers to use red text to restore her honor was one of the best things I've ever seen and almost completely redeemed the chapter. ;_;
I felt smart because a character said "Rudolf clearly knows something when you look at Chapter 1", because I pointed that out in one of my posts here. Feels good, man.
No.1348
I think there's too many characters being introduced when I want to know more about the existing ones
- I don't like Erica, as she ruins the island. She's fun in a meta sense, but she destroys the atmosphere with her proclamations from God (Bernkastel). I don't know how later chapters are, but chapter 5 would be better without her. She's basically there to tell you "This is not real, do not enjoy these character interactions, this follows the rules of a trashy novel."
The constant 4th wall breaking really does not belong in a series that is so emotional and empathetic. Maybe she's just following the chapter's theme of destroying what I liked about "the game"/Umineko, but I have to say that overall she is a terrible addition, even if she makes funny faces. She would be a great character in almost anything else, but not from something that just gave me Chapter 4 and the beauty of believing in magic and sympathizing with characters who struggle against their suffering and reach their own happiness. I hope she gets destroyed soon and never brought up again.
- Dlanor is fun and I like her. She has an interesting and unique perspective that is a proper addition to the cast. The pride and sensitivity she has over her "dad" that created those Knox rules is cute, especially for an "unfeeling" golem or whatever she is. Basically, she's a good version of Erika that I can accept as an otherworldly judge with her own reasoning. Her underlings don't really add anything, though.
- I like Beatrice because you could tell she wasn't pure evil, she had/has her own motivations and emotions and I'm trying to understand her. The "hehe life doesn't matter, let's kill everyone" personality of Bernkastel and Lambadelta is very boring to me. I hope Rika is still there in Bernkastel somewhere and she becomes a real character. Currently when either of these two are on the screen I lose interest.
- Since I've started chapter 6, it seems another "I'm bored" witch has been introduced. I remember her from Gou/Sotsu where she wasn't particularly interesting for the same reason. I'm glad to see Ange back, but these great witches are not interesting or empathetic. Bring back Ronove and the Seven Spikes!
No.1349
>>1347>>1348Well, yeah... that
is the point. Erika's out for blood, Dlanor is a terminator, and witches are bitches. The Court of Heaven and its bureaucracy has sent down some of their best to see it done. It
is an attack on Beato's works and what they stand for. Umineko is waaaaayyy more meta than Higurashi and this is something that makes sense both in- and out-of-universe. What you're feeling is intended. I don't think the bounceback would work without it.
Saying that Erika sucks, though? I hope you'll reconsider that one.
>I hope Rika is still there in Bernkastel somewhere and she becomes a real characterI... would not hold my breath.
Though, the way things are going, I'm pretty sure you're gonna love Chapter 8.
No.1350
>>1349Yeah, I meant to make a third post a few hours later after thinking on it more. Chapter 5 isn't bad, but it did a good job of making me upset. It's hard to rank it when I hate it by design.
Yeah, Chapter 6 seems to be the opposite and it made me smile and feel all warm inside so far, but I'm not too far into it. I'm expecting something atrocious to happen.
It's kind of nice that despite so much time on imageboards and seeing so many Bernkastel and Lambadelta reaction images, almost nothing has been spoiled for me as they tell nothing about the story. Though, I guess you didn't need to read it to save and repost them.
Erika? Well, maybe as a
"love to hate" villain she's alright. It's nice to see her lose and get angry. But, anyone who picks on Marie I can't like. She made her cry and unless there's a redemption like Ange it's unforgivable. Marie is such a nice girl. She fills me with those extremely intense moe "urge to protect' instincts.
No.1354
>>1353Anonymous, I'm sorry to tell you this, but... She's called Maria. With an A.
No.1358
>>1354Er, yeah. That's what I meant to type.
I guess I've warmed up to Erika since she seems to be
a pawn (literally) with emotions and not just an evil clown clone of Bern. No.1360
>>1359I think I agree with Anonymous' comment that you'll probably enjoy EP8 with your current grievances. The "Without love, it cannot be seen" comment I think is still up in the air, and maybe referencing one of the endings.
No.1362
>>1361Uh. Ryukishi is pretty clearly anti-nationalistic.
No.1364
>>1359The original Japanese line is 「愛がなければ視えない」 which literally means "if there is no love, it cannot be seen". It's not a riddle in the sense that the epitaph is, it's the core of the story, what Beato tells Battler when he fails to grasp her setups. Let's wait until you finish 8 and see what you think of it.
>>1361Not "everything", but...
>Scheduled for today is the funeral of the Golden Witch and her game.>The days of the game are already over, and nothing remains but fond memories.>Here, the cold, hard truth will be revealed, and death will come to the game...>There is...a bit of difficulty to this one. No.1369
Finished Chapter 7 and both tea party things.
Belmont is a pretty great character, although I wonder if his original portraits also had such tiny eyes. I guess the future for him is bright and he forgot shades.
I wonder if all these higher plane people share the same higher dimension or if "heaven" is somewhere else separate from Bern and such. It seems like "real" witches have dominance over them, though, so maybe a dimension between fragments and where ever witches dwell. I don't expect that to be elaborated upon, but it seems interesting.
I still hate the early part where it mentions WW2 and Japan and Italy and whatever else as I think it unnecessarily brought real life parallels to a fantasy work, but after that the chapter really picked up and became good. Well, Maria being some sort of Christian is a bit strange too, but it makes a bit more sense since Western religion/mysticism stuff was already involved from the beginning with the mention of Hebrew symbols.
The story of "Claire" was a nice return to to magic from the banal world of "mystery". The chapter format was quite great, although I'm not too big a fan of the theater thing. Lion being the miracle fragment is quite reminiscent of Higurashi and Bern spending all that time to find it gives me conflicting theories as to her motive. Sure, it'd be entertaining for her and her 'master', but I wonder. I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I will. I want to believe.
I was expecting some explanation of why and how Shannon became "furniture", but there is no such answer. However, now that I think about it I remember earlier it was mentioned that Shannon and Kanon together are one human and that's why they can't both find love, so I guess when Beatrice somehow created Kanon she split Shannon's soul and she's no longer a full human. I don't think Beatrice's magic comes with a sacrifice like the higher witches, so it seems like a simple cause-and-effect thing. Well, at least if you believe in magical explanations. I do...
It's funny, the past few days I've been thinking that it's strange that Rudolf hasn't been a villain in any of these worlds, so of course now he is. Also, I really hate Eva even if she wasn't the ultimate villain this time. I haven't said that enough. Maybe she'll finally find redemption in Chapter 8. So many of the characters have a past full of suffering, but people like Maria gain empathy whereas people like Eva gain cruelty. This is one of the things that shows great strength of character, in fiction or reality. People who receive cruelty either from people or from circumstance and yet still care for others are the most beautiful of all, like Maria.
Seeing the epitaph in even more detail... yeah there was no way I would get even one step of it. Funnily "Lion" was there in "quadrillion" and I wonder if Ryukishi07 did that on purpose even though it wasn't part of the puzzle.
Hoping for the miracle of miracles as I start Chapter 8. I hope Beatrice can somehow be revived as herself and not as Lion or someone without memories. I hope Bern reveals that she has at least a touch of humanity left in her.
I hope Maria gets everything she wants and more. Have I said how much I love Maria as a character? Because she's wonderful.
No.1370
>>1369Hmmm... Well, there's the Halloween Party, but if you already hate Eva this much then I doubt that'll change anything. I'm curious though, why do you dislike her so strongly?
I mean, alright, she's ruthless, she talks smack, and overall she's a cunt, but I don't see her as being truly abusive like Rosa is. I wouldn't say her treatment of George is anything insane, either. She's shown to have an honest, healthy, and loving relationship with Hideyoshi, a genuinely great guy who respects her and with whom she can be openly vulnerable. It's quite possibly the best relationship anyone in the family has, I would say better than Kyrie and Rudolf's.
No.1371
>>1370>I don't see her as being truly abusive like Rosa isRosa is terrible, true, but Eva being terrible is highlighted in almost every chapter, including 7 which I just completed. She does care about George, somewhat, maybe, but it's hard to say that's genuine love and not her simply grooming a protege to inherit the ring to give her power. I think the goodness in George is a result of Hideyoshi's influence. Hideyoshi is a great person, like everyone else that married one of these terrible siblings. Well, Kyrie is more "cool" than loving.
>It's quite possibly the best relationship anyone in the family has, I would say better than Kyrie and Rudolf's.Maybe, but its because the siblings are such terrible, selfish people. Natsuhi is my favorite of the adult couples, but her marriage is just so sad and one-sided from the very beginning.
Eva is extremely rude, insulting and cruel to those around her. She doesn't simply disagree with someone, she insults and demeans and tries to break them in front of others. It is a particular type of hierarchical cruelty that is truly abhorrent to me.
No.1375
>>1371That's understandable and I do not disagree.
I personally, uh, respect her proactiveness. At least she has some higher goals and stuff.
>>1372It's going down like it never has before.
No.1385
>>1384Hmm actually,
Maria seems pretty suspicious here. If these are lies then it opens up a lot of possibility, such as the second twilight happening at all. If she's lying, then it opens up George as a culprit.
Well, I guess Maria will have to go to the "maybe" pile since nothing here is conclusive to me right now. I think I need to make a screenshot of red text for comparisons
No.1388
>>1387Yeah if you hate mysteries a lot then it might be frustrating to go through this section. Also the theories that people had beforehand were Nomura/Takano because of the 34 connection
3(lambda) 4(delta)
3(三) 4(四)
No.1390
>>1389By that I mean I thought she was Takano for the first few chapters. Their relationship seemed a lot more aggressive and bitter in the first 6 or so chapters so it would make sense to me. Maybe I should have remembered that Gou/Sotsu meant that Satoko is willing to kill all her friends and family to avoid homework.
sigh... so stupid
No.1391
>>1390I don't blame her, homework
SUCKS.
No.1392
>>1387I liked Bern's game because it gave me a chance to finally not be a tard and finally figure something out on my own, managed to get it right without any hints. It was fun.
As for 34, in Ciconia there's yet another blondie with that name, hhhhowever I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that it's actually a prequel given one specific scene from Gousotsu. I'll be proven right when Phase 4 releases fifteen years from now.
No.1393
Umineko... complete. sigh. I was forcefully ejected back into reality.
Someone earlier said I would love chapter 8, and I'm pleased to announce that they were right. Wow.
I can't really organize my thoughts so I'll just throw a bunch of lines around:
It was really a beautiful way to wrap things up. I was still hoping for a miracle far greater than Battler returning after decades, and I cried when it came true. I wanted magic and miracles to be real! It kind of makes me wonder what would have happened if I chose the 'trick' door, but I refuse to acknowledge that so it will stay closed. Magic is real and that's final.
Is it just two endings, the "trick" one and the "magic" one? Does the medal count in the quizzes matter at all apart from possibly influencing the prize doll (which would just be visual)?
I was very happy that one of the witches became emotional and throw away their witchy instincts, but I was not expecting it to be Lambda. This makes the Gou/Sotsu thing even more infuriating.
Eva did redeem herself in this chapter, or rather I was finally able to see the real Eva and I'm very happy to be proven wrong.
As the story is complete, I can say that I hate Bern and Erica with full confidence. They're not bad characters, but obviously I'm going to hate villains that stand in the way of the happiness of the good guys. Rika really is dead inside, huh. A sad fate for someone that used to be so strong...
When I first heard Schrodinger's cat (or I guess "cat box" here) I kind of wanted to groan because it's cliche, but it used it for such a fantastic way for the story. All the talk about the various "truth" and such is such a brilliant way of using it. Man, what an impressive story of reality and truth and facts and magic and so on. Truly impressive.
Although she barely got any attention in the later chapters, I still have to say Maria is my favorite character because of Chapter 4 and occasional interactions with Ange later on. I can't say enough how much I love Maria's story.
I might be able to say more later, as I'm still kind of recovering from it being over. This is something I kept around as unread not just out of procrastination, but because I wanted something amazing to experience when I needed it. Now I need something else in reserve...
Ah, and now it's time to go download a bunch of albums and stuff, although I really don't know where to go for any doujin stuff these days so it would just be official stuff from AB or whatnot...
No.1394
>Magic is real and that's final.
Glad you picked the objectively best ending and enjoyed yourself because of it. Yeah, it's a really fantastic finale and the joy it brings to finally have everyone happy is second to none. A bit of spoilers maybe, but the trick ending is just as pessimistic as the option presents itself so you did well to avoid it.
Did you watch the secret tea party afterwards as well? It's great too.
No.1396
>>1393Yeah, the ending is god-tier. Don't understand why some people dislike 8, thematically it makes total sense.
There's just those two, and yes, the medals and gift are purely visual. Still a very interesting way to have Ange interact with the family.
Part of the strength you've talked about is faith, it pops up a lot. A lot of people take away that love and magic in Umi consist of denial, but I understand it to actually be faith in others, opposed to mystery's cold truth which places no trust on anyone. Battler's conflict is about trying to maintain faith in his family while opposing Beato's torture. Maria has faith in Rosa, and endures through magic. There's also stuff about understanding people's hearts and motivations and all that.
Golden truths are the product of collective faith as well, which is why in 6 when Erika and Maria are fighting over the teacup, the former can say "
Your so-called candy magic is nothing more than a sleight of hand!! Just a sleight of hand that the fake witch calling herself Beatrice or whatever claimed was magic!!", but later Beato states that "
You used magic to create a golden flower petal inside an overturned cup. It was a splendid bit of magic." I'd like to believe these are compatible with each other, but I'll admit I'm not sure.
Going back to the endings, in the magic one Ange lets go of her stake of the group and her need to pursue the gruesome truth because it won't bring anyone back, it's pointless, while the story in Eva's diary is not made public. Even lets go of her name. In the trick ending... Erika and Ange are comrades, that's all I'm gonna say. Witch of Resurrection versus Witch of Truth. Imo, both fit and make for a great conclusion, I do think the trick ending is important even if it feels awful and that it's commendable how it lets you choose. It goes against the message, but you can do it anyways.
In any case: without love, it cannot be seen.
Don't forget to read Tsubasa, Hane, and Saku. They may be side stories, but some of them are quite relevant, like Memoirs of Lambdadelta (very important wish-granting) or Witches' Tanabata (about Maria and Rosa, Ange and Eva). You may be able to get a few more hours out of it, and you can watch funny fan videos should you choose to.
No.1397
>>1396>Don't understand why some people dislike 8, thematically it makes total sense.Yeah it was somewhere here on kissu (not this thread) where someone said something bad about chapter 8 and I don't really understand it. Well, I'm sure people had different expectations or just different tastes so I guess it's understandable.
>A lot of people take away that love and magic in Umi consist of denial, but I understand it to actually be faith in others, opposed to mystery's cold truth which places no trust on anyone.That's a good way of putting it and how I see it as well. Maria has unshakable faith that her mother loves her and that she isn't alone. Rosa created a toy friend for her and it is a real, literal friend- a sentient lion that she can talk to and play games with because that's what a friend is. Since her mother loves her, when someone that looks like her mom is angry and violent it is clearly not her mom.
>...when Erika and Maria are fighting over the teacup, the former can say "Your so-called candy magic is nothing more than a sleight of hand!! Just a sleight of hand that the fake witch calling herself Beatrice or whatever claimed was magic!!", but later Beato states that "You used magic to create a golden flower petal inside an overturned cup. It was a splendid bit of magic." I'd like to believe these are compatible with each other, but I'll admit I'm not sure.I think they're compatible, sort of. The way I interpreted things is that the idea of a universal "truth" is really not something that exists, least of all with reality-bending higher witches around. Chapter 8 is when Ange was able to overturn the red text directly, proving its flawed premise of it being absolute truth. It's similar, but different from Battler using gold text to override red text in a previous chapter. I think Ange doing it without text color is a sign that she has essentially changed the rules of the world whereas Battler was still following them back in chapter, uhh.. 5?
The way I see it, red text is more like an artificial truth given by a game master over a game, or a witch over a lower dimension. It's like reformatting the world to create a new one, removing what was previously there, which I suppose goes along with the "cat box" theme. The game master could say "the sky is pink" in red text and it becomes true by act of God essentially. The power of the gold/magic allows a human to reject it. I find it very interesting that Featherine laid a gold rose onto the closed book, like an acknowledgement that the Ushiromiyas have written the final set of rules for their world.
>Don't forget to read Tsubasa, Hane, and Saku.What are these exactly? Manga?
No.1398
>>1396>>1397In Japan, chapter 8 is widely seen as a betrayal on Ryukishi's part.
After spending a lot of time building up Umineko as a battle of wits with the player in an active role and the central goal of figuring out Beatrice's identity and motivation, and how the murders took place, the game throws this aspect out the window and goes full metafiction, and gives a cheap solution (lol split personalities) that isn't even explicitly stated in the main game, leaving room for doubt. Many people didn't like the whole goat thing in the later chapters as well, which is just Ryukishi berating the players for trying to solve the game.
Now imagine this is what you get after spending 3 years attending Comiket to buy the games on release and sharing theories on message boards trying to solve the mysteries.I don't dislike chapter 8 myself, but it's understandable. Also, considering Higurashi used to be touted as one of the "big 3 doujin games" along with Touhou and Tsukihime, and Ryukishi has faded into irrelevance while Touhou is reclining but still going strong and Nasu swims in money... it's hard to say he didn't shoot himself in the foot with Umineko.
No.1399
>>1398Hmm... Well, I suppose I can see how that would play out. The mystery part seems like an afterthought to me, but I have no interest in it. I already said so earlier, but Higurashi's little epilogue things (like the Tea Parties in Umineko) that asked the reader to come up with theories proved to be something that surely no one predicted, so I would have assumed people would expect something similar. The tragedy of Higurashi was solved when everyone believed their friends could accomplish a miracle, not because of fantastic reasoning and logical deductions. I wonder if people were upset about that, too.
Umineko comes around where magic and witches are mentioned from the beginning and there are storylines like Maria's completely unrelated to the murders and I kind of have to wonder what people were expecting. I think that ship sailed long before chapter 8.
No.1400
>>1397Hmmm, I don't know to what degree the catbox analogy actually applies. There's at least two side stories where we're shown game masters explicitly crafting their board with full knowledge of everything that'll be in it. Complicated stuff.
>What are these exactly?More novels, a collection of shorter stories like Higurashi Rei/Hou/console arcs. Super recommended:
https://nyaa.si/view/1091912>>1398I think Umineko's solution is much better than Higurashi's. From what I've seen, people were theorizing about
Shkannon,
Shannontrice, and their relation to the broken promise as early as 2009. A
split personality is way, waaaay less out there than an
outsider secret society pulling the strings. I mean, how many people predicted
Tokyo? Having that fresh in my memory, I wasn't mad at all.
I also came into Umi hoping for a battle of wits (what got me interested in WTC was logic battles roleplay), in chapter 2 I already wasn't a fan of all the magic fights, I thought they were obscuring the real mystery.
Which was true, and once I realized that the change in tone was no surprise. I didn't take the goats thing personally even though that's what I'd been doing all along, because in spite of that it's still solvable without magic, there's a concrete solution that you can choose to pursue by design.
As for the ratings and stuff, how was Phase 1 received in Japan? In the west it's the third most posted about, while the ones inbetween it and Umi you never hear of, like Higanbana, Hoturabi, or Rose Gun Days. I myself don't know jack about them either. But P1 was a setup chapter and it's been four years since it released 'cause apparently P2 was going to feature a pandemic and that got royally screwed over. Then came Gousotsu, which was awful. A bad streak.
Gacha may be a important factor too, it was just a couple years after Umi ended that it started to spread, right? I'd bet FGO is what draws most people to Fate nowadays, don't think mobage players are going to sit down and read a long-ass novel like older fans used to. The other two didn't adapt.
>>1399The mystery is definitely not an afterthought, getting the reader to fire up their neurons was always intended:
>I have made it to the point where in a classical mystery someone would say „All the mysteries have been solved!“, the answer has been made clear enough and not few people have actually arrived at the truth. For me there has always been a path leading towards the truth and there have been enough people on it at certain points to be sufficient. The people arriving there have arrived because they thought about it. And wouldn’t it be inexcusable towards those who actually put effort into arriving at that truth, to just give the answer to those who didn’t arrive because they did not think about it. Because I hoped for the fun in Umineko to lie in „thinking and troubling yourself, but reaching the answer through that“, I did not create something like a solution section in a riddle book, where you can look for the answers just by opening them.It's from this 2011 interview, where arriving at the truth comes up a lot:
https://seizonsha.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/最終考察%E3%80%80うみねこのなく頃に-answer-to-the-golden-witch-special-discussionHaven't read the whole thing, it's long as hell.
No.1456
>>1400>More novels, a collection of shorter stories like Higurashi Rei/Hou/console arcs. Super recommended:https://nyaa.si/view/1091912Nice!
Yep, I'll definitely be reading those then. Huh, so some people are working on "Umineko Gold" with with help from Ryukishi and Witch Hunt, huh. No interest in English dub (weird), but that sounds interesting. (from the nyaa link)
>The mystery is definitely not an afterthoughWell, alright, the mystery stuff is only an afterthought
to me.
>ShkannonThat's one of the things I was hoping would be answered in Chapter 8, but never was. Well, I guess it's just magic then.
I assumed the "reveal" of Kanon possibly being magically split from Shannon threw a wench in the red text of "There are 18 living humans on the island" from a few chapters earlier, especially after the Kinzo may or may not have been dead. I remember some witch saying that was a risky thing to say. No.1459
>>1456They're good stuff. Though Gold is apparently ultra dead, has been for some time now.
>18Looking at the wiki, the statement for most episodes is something like:
There are no more than 18 humans on this Rokkenjima. Even counting Erika, it checks out.