No.122097
Really not a fan of this "character development" haircut Nadeko got in Owari btw. Even Nisio himself admits that he made her ugly.
>>122096What do you mean?
No.122112
>>122095Of course I'm watching the best anime to come out in years. Looking forward to the Madoka movie too.
No.122113
>>122104There won't be another satisfactory end point until the next graduation ends the series for good.
No.122120
I didn't know there were still things left to adapt from monogatari. Looks like I need to catch up with the final season before this thing comes out
>>122100I hope we get more shots like picrel
No.123978
I still haven't seen the olds ones yet.
No.124001
>>122108just like second season did once upon a time
No.124002
>>123999Really hoping this is just the ED, was even looking at the comments and most of the people were saying they hope that the charasongs are still in.
No.129905
From what I've read Shaft has had issues with the production and has had complaints from overworked and underpaid animators. Basically the same stuff that caused quite a few of them to leave the studio and go to David Production and elsewhere. Not unique to Shaft, of course, but seemingly bad enough to disrupt things.
No.129920
>>129917Shaft hasn't done anything except make gaccha advertising material. Their spinoff of strike witches was also inferior to the road-to-berlin sequel. Also undead unluck and stuff.Their past 5 years have produced more memorable works
No.129922
>>129920I'm not a big fan of Juju, but David absolutely botched Stardust Crusaders. It's inferior to the OVA in every aspect. The Dio fight has terrible animation. That's what leads me to believe they're a bad studio. No notable works besides Juju either.
>>129921They already redeemed themselves with this new Gatari adaptation and there's also the fourth Madoka movie in the works. Meanwhile David has only produced mediocrity.
No.129923
>>129922you're a simple person, i get it
No.129927
I shouldn't put any stock in a "the thing you like is shit" post, but I think David is quite good and only improving. Shaft is also good, obviously. You can like multiple studios.
David did Fire Force, Urusei Yatsura remake and Undead Unluck which are all
very visually appealing. Absolutely beautiful shows.
It's the people that matter and not the studio, but I'm not going to memorize 5000 Japanese names and follow them on twitter so I can actually know them. The Shaft hallmarks are all over Undead Unluck at least and I can recognize them (as did other people here when it aired and the thread is still here on /qa/ somewhere) and it seems like a good mixture of old and new talent as even without ex-Shaft people at the helm they produce wonderful work.
If nothing else, you should watch the OP and EDs belonging to these shows because they're truly fantastic.
Actually, this made me look this up and it seems Fire Force 3 switched from Shaft to David Production sometime in the past couple months:
https://anilist.co/anime/149118/Enen-no-Shouboutai-San-no-Shou/ There was talk of David Production doing it but then people said Shaft was doing it and the studio was a blank page on anime sites but now it seems it's officially David Productions.
No.129932
>>129927>David did Fire Force, Urusei Yatsura remake and Undead Unluck which are all very visually appealingThey are a battle shonen studio that banked on Juju money, so it makes sense. Those shows have absolutely nothing to do with Shaft's iconic avant-garde's style, so I'm not really seeing where the 'talent' went. They are also all mediocre in my opinion. It just didn't feel like this mattered at all since Zoku is one of the most visually appealing entries and the new season is shaping up to be as well.
I also don't think JJK looks bad despite disliking MAPPA of course, so we can make it a direct comparison to those shows. But it doesn't excuse the other shows where MAPPA fucked up like SnK, Dorohedoro, CSM. They are an overrated studio and Madhouse outclassed them with Frieren recently.
Basically I dislike greedy idiots who go after battle shonen money.
No.129933
>>129921only two good things on that list
spot the reason why...
No.129934
>>129922>but David absolutely botched Stardust CrusadersThis is why monotardifags are the worst posters on kissu.
There was only ONE bad part of the animation and that was the end, everything else was good. It was a direct copy of the fucking manga and that's all anyone asked for.
In short, neck yourself.
No.129936
>>129933I guess these 5 years were the "dark ages" of Shaft, but they kinda went over my head. I obviously didn't like that trash Madoka spinoff and Assault Lily. I think things will improve from now on though.
>>129934You are entitled to your idiotic opinion, but I don't agree. The art and animation are of a much lower quality than the OVA. It's just more 'on-model' and 'loyal' to the manga, but who cares. Did you even watch the OVA or are you too young to even know about it considering the immature way you articulate yourself? You can argue that it has a higher budget because it's an OVA instead of a TV series, but being TV doesn't really stop shows from having high budgets nowadays. I mean, just look at something like Kimetsu no Yaiba for example; a show made by an actually competent studio. The Jojo adaptations made by David are nowhere near on that level and neither is Fireforce.
There's also Part 6 which people complain about it having bad art and animation. It was made after the former Shaft staff left for it as well.
You also entered a Monogatari thread to complain about people who like it. Very smart of you.
No.129937
I'll just ignore all that and say it was a great episode and that anime is saved. Though I hope we get Suruga Bonehead and Sodachi Fiasco soon too. And I want to see character OPs, though I guess they could be BD exclusive.
No.129938
>>129936Yeah, I did. The OVA was ass.
I hate this /v/tarded shit going on trying to turn it into a console war but for anime studios, its reeks of /v/tierbullshit.
No.129939
>>122095I appreciate the inspired story/characters/etc, but I've never seen the 1st season so until then, no. :P
No.129940
>>129938The OVA has better art and animation than the TV series regardless of your opinion on it. Maybe you can argue that the David adaptation has 'better' art on the ground that it's more loyal to the manga artstyle, but not from a technical standpoint.
>I hate this /v/tarded shit going on trying to turn it into a console war but for anime studiosIt's not like I'm saying something like "Fuck KyoAnus moeshit" though. I'm only judging the studios from a technical standpoint. David ranks pretty low in terms of studios and MAPPA is severely overrated in my opinion.
No.129945
>>129936>I guess these 5 years were the "dark ages" of Shaft, but they kinda went over my head. I obviously didn't like that trash Madoka spinoff and Assault Lily. I think things will improve from now on though. They clearly still have talent, but they're really lacking in terms of new IPs. Their last wholly new project, by which I mean one that wasn't a sequel, spin-off, or otherwise blatantly riding off of the popularity of an earlier series, which achieved any notable success was 3-gatsu all the way back in 2016. And now with Monogatari and Madoka once more occupying all their time, I doubt that's going to be changing any time soon.
No.129946
>>129945The people at the top stayed, but if you do any simple research you see that everyone left when the people at the top were suppressing the growth of the people bellow them in the hierarchy.
Call of the Night and
Fire Force are cited as the two series that show where Shaft has really failed in keeping up with trends.
No.129954
>>129934This kind of aggressive post is really not beneficial to anyone...
No.129955
>>129949people could say this about Gainax, which had a history of good things, but a leadership who showed their failings. You're ignoring the letdowns they've made because there's a good director still at the top and money.
No.129968
>>129958>even if I am bit burnt out from MonogatariDo you say that because of the stream or? Otherwise it has been 5 years since Zoku. It's just these books +
Hitagi Honeymoon for the series to have a satisfying conclusion now. I don't think Nisio plans on really milking it more after that. Tsugi seems to be just an extra final farewell that he's currently working on.
No.129991
I think this season is playing out so far like one of the better ones. Lots of things happening vs inner primarily inner monologue. The first episode certainly could've been it's own mini arc in one of the other seasons.
No.130005
>>129932>Those shows have absolutely nothing to do with Shaft's iconic avant-garde's style, so I'm not really seeing where the 'talent' went.Ahem...
I'm going to link posts so you can just hover over them to see the thumbnails. Consider these to be of mixed degrees of spoiler, but it sounds like it's not something you'll watch anyway.
First we should start with a mild Shaft head tilt
>>121051 (the post has some names attached and also the post below it has the AWESOME first OP.. anyone that says anything bad about that OP is lying to themselves)
The OP also hints at some of the muted color scenes that I associate with Shaft, as does the show itself but I don't see them linked in that thread, oops.
The videos around here show some fantastic visuals that remind me of Shaft at times, particularly
>>121079also here's the amazing ED!
>>121091no description
>>121074 >>121114 >>121097 >>121123 >>121170Not particularly Shaft-like but just shows how good David Production is at stuff:
>>121076 >>121154 >>121171UNDEAD UNLUCK IS GREAT! (the recaps aren't, but apart from that...)
No.130166
>>130005>(the recaps aren't, but apart from that...)I just learned today that someone's made an Unpad version, that they uploaded to this google drive:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HzciQdU4Ng_t92LEdf_j-09Hd5xCewn-According to the included spreadsheet, it cuts down on one hour, twenty seven minutes, and thirty seconds, or about 15% of the entire runtime. It also comes with a folder of comparisons and when I checked pic in the manga (later part of volume 4) I was able to confirm that there is indeed no flashback in sight, the scene plays out just like in the unpadded version.
Also damn, looking at the manga makes me appreciate how great the anime looks even more.
PS: I wasn't sure where to say this, but according to leaks the second season was confirmed long ago and its announcement will come in the scheduled August thingamajig.
No.130180
>>122095would it be best to keep with novel order or just watch this as it releases?
No.130182
>>130166>PS: I wasn't sure where to say this, but according to leaks the second season was confirmed long ago and its announcement will come in the scheduled August thingamajig.Yeah I mentioned that in the thread I made!
>>122077The assumption is an anime season, of course. I guess it could be a movie or something, but either way it's AWESOME!
No.130208
The MTBB release is out and someone did a 'difference' thingie:
https://www.diffchecker.com/XMbxRcQb/I haven't watched it yet so I'm not going to read through it, but I wonder what people think.
No.130209
>>130208I actively avoid MTBB unless there is no other option. Since everyone involved openly admits they don't speak Japanese at all and only speak English as a second language. They're also openly hostile to other groups and list themselves on the "best fansub" release lists even when most others agree their releases are inferior TL wise.
There are basically two cartels now. This one and the old one. They in-fight with each other but will band together to prevent any other group from being listed anywhere.
I know more don't care and you probably shouldn't. I just thought it worth mentioning. These people are basically a ripping group. They do not do anything but take other people's scripts and BD rips and typically make unneeded or bad edits to them. They're pretty annoying.
No.130210
>>130209>There are basically two cartels now. This one and the old one.Correction: There are two "cartels". The original one everyone knows about. This new one is what I've dubbed the ESL cartel. They weren't cool enough to get into the original cartel because they can't speak English well so they formed their own. If you go lurk around the servers they shill everywhere you'll find rooms in them like
>Straight-phobicand constant crying about politics. Along with them openly talking about the fact that they only pick up shows that will bring them the most attention.
I shouldn't have even bothered as I normally don't join Discords on general principle. But at the time I was trying to extend and olive branch and find common ground. I was in there for about 10 minutes before I got banned for no reason. Lesson learned. No point in trying.
From what I've seen. They typically take either a CR script or an old fansub script and spend most of their time removing "problematic" content. On the encoding side of things they basically copy/paste settings used by other people. Twice I've seen them claim someone else's encode was inferior in some way. Only for them to copy/paste that persons command line for their next batch release and go around bragging about how they've found some hidden setting to improve quality. Most of their stuff is really really bad and I've learned over the last two years not to even bother to check it. I was only interested in the first place because they were doing HEVC encodes for older series so I thought it would save me some time in that respect. But 9 times out of 10 I couldn't use whatever they released anyway and was better off transcoding my own from a BD source and using the 10+ year old fansub script. Since those old scripts are from the before times when people could take a joke.
For Monogatari in particular they only do releases because the original batches got them a lot of new members in their chat rooms. They basically pick up old Shaft stuff only for that reason. They pick up shows that cause a shitstir on social media for the same reason.
I'm not lying when I say they don't have one person among them that understands even N5 level Japanese. They talk about that pretty often lamenting the fact that they can't do translation checks and are forced to rely upon other people's scripts. Any time a TLer has tried to work with them they've chased them off over political stuff and just being hard to get along with in general. People that do TL work generally don't want to put up with that crap. If they're willing to put up with that stuff they're already working for some company like CR or FUNI.
Of course the average person shouldn't care about any of this. Just trying to make you aware of how these people are behind the scenes. I've seen them get others banned from places like nyaa and large anime discussion platforms multiple times. It seems no matter where you go they have a moderator on staff. One of them got caught using a hacked nyaa account and ate a ban for it. They paid over $500 for access to it. Within a day the mods had created a brand new account for them. Rules for thee but not for me is how they like to operate.
The old school cartel can't stand them for some reason but I haven't read much into it. Lurking around the places these people hang out is pretty boring and you realize you're wasting your time/life if you're a sane person. I only poked my head in there because I thought they were angry about a misunderstanding. Turns out they didn't care in the least. They are just like that towards everyone outside of their group.
No.130212
>>130209It did ring some alarm bells when they translated pic related as another completely unrelated English pun to make it more friendly to "modern audiences": >>>/jp/77289 I only grabbed the MTBB release because it was convenient and it's what has the most seeds on nyaa. Otherwise this release consisting of multiple different sub groups is way better. I downloaded it separately:
https://kitsunekko.net/dirlist.php?dir=subtitles%2FMonogatari+All+Seasons+Modified+Batch%2FSo yeah, I doubt the MTBB release will be much better than the official translation in this case.
No.130213
>>130212>So yeah, I doubt the MTBB release will be much better than the official translation in this case.Well they are a group that says CR subs for shows that pander to certain political groups are better than original scripts from non-political TLers. So that's to be expected.
What I don't understand is why they don't translate into their own languages. You think they would considering it's a bunch of ESL people from all over the world. But then you remember they beg for donations and it makes sense.
No.130214
>>130210Alright, I think I'll put that in the "not a fan" box, although you're talking more as general opinion instead of this specific situation. You're generally getting ESL translations for the official stuff these days as well since it's cheaper and Crunchy and the like needs that money for, uhh, whoever they pay that's completely unrelated to the most important role. The business world sure is something.
>>130211Hm, interesting. I looked at a few lines in the comparison thing and the main thing I see is "lolita complex" changed to "he likes little girls" with the latter more understood to a general audience I suppose. That's something that will anger some people, but then they change Shinedo-Bird to Dying Bird so people actually know the names meaning, which is basically accomplishing the same thing of making it understood to commoners like me. I do generally prefer actually knowing what a name means assuming a Japanese speaker would inherently know what 'Shinedo Bird' means, unless there's TL notes somewhere.
No.130217
>>130213I should have mentioned that the so-called leader of that group is living solely off donations and disability. He brags about it pretty often. I can't remember what country he's from. But those meager donations they're getting is more than minimum wage in his country of origin. He brags about not paying taxes on them as well. I know they've had some in-fighting in the past because he doesn't share with the rest of the group. The old-school cartel is pretty much doing the same thing. They claim they need hundreds of dollars a month for some crappy seedboxes and encoding servers. But the majority of what they're making is going right into their own pockets.
I can't remember what other tags they use but MTBB is just the main one. I know [smol] is another. If you pop into their chat room and cross reference it with nyaa comments you'll see the same usernames in the comment sections of just about every release some real fansub group did claiming it is worse than their own in some way. For me personally they used diffchecker against an old speedsub script we did that was over a year old at that time. Then they attempted to claim that was the quality of the entire season we released as a batch using scripts we'd re-worked. I am not a fan of liars and people that resort to tactics like that. They're also under the impression that anyone that talks about a release we did on /a/ is one of us. When the fact is we only use the board like once a month to announce new manga translations and such. Personally, I probably only post on /a/ maybe three times a year now due to the lack of any threads worth posting in.
Long story short. They have no life outside of this stuff and will devote themselves to searching all over the internet in an attempt to find you and make up stories about you. They operate like gossiping women. It would be funny if they weren't making a profit from it.
No.130218
>>130214>Hm, interesting. I looked at a few lines in the comparison thing and the main thing I see is "lolita complex" changed to "he likes little girls" with the latter more understood to a general audience I suppose.This is not unusual for their "work". They adore so-called "prosubs" and their ultimate goal in life is to get hired by CR. So they pretty much copy them whenever possible.
No.130219
>>130213>>130217Yeah, uhm. That's kinda shocking to hear if this is all true. I had no idea about any of it. I do know that fansub groups usually have a lot of dumb drama going on, but this one seems specially shit if what you said is true.
>>130218Either is fine in this case. It would only be concerning if they translated it to "pedo" or something.
No.130221
>>130212The translation in the ANE release isn't accurate here either.
>>>/jp/77289>Black Hanekawa is literally referring to "a cat is fine too" internet memeIs she really? Araragi says:
>よし お前の手を借りよう¥ All right, I'll borrow your hand / let's borrow your handWhat she really says in response is:
>これが本当の猫の手も借りたい状況ってやつだにゃ¥ This is what you'd call a true "wanting to borrow even a cat's hand" situationwhere "猫の手も借りたい" is a figure of speech for being shorthanded to the point that you want all the help you can get. The pun is that she is actually a cat, so Araragi is quite literally borrowing a cat's hand.
Shortly after, he says:
>手っつうか嗅覚と聴覚な¥ Rather than your hand, I mean your sense of smell and your sense of hearingBut the ANE release omits the mention of "hand" because of how the line in question was rewritten in translation.
Pic related is the line that "a cat is fine too" was a translation of. Was this ever a meme in Japan too? I think "Nice boat." became one.
No.130231
>>130230Also, this sentence translates in quite a few different ways using the three languages I speak as example. "Cat and mouse situation" would be better than MTBB's translation as well. They could say:
Araragi:
"All right, you can lend a hand"
Black Hanekawa:
"Nyahaha. Is this what they call a cat and mouse situation?"
No.130233
>>130221>>130231I think it's better to use the literal translation. Part of the appeal of anime is that it's Japanese so it should be left as such.
Localisation and memes only really cause confusion anyway, particularly if the audience doesn't know the meme or that particular phrase(which happens regularly with American translations).
I personally don't know what a cat and mouse situation is and I'm a native English speaker(not American though, but it's still probably used in my country I am just terrible with such things).
No.130234
there was one scene i remember from bake, the one where he ambushes snail with his creepy smile, and when she has her ragged breath while biting him at the end he says "robo choujin mitee" which is a kinnikuman reference and they translated it as "you sound like darth vader" but i think that's pretty neat as far as localization goes
No.130238
>>130233>I think it's better to use the literal translation. Part of the appeal of anime is that it's Japanese so it should be left as such.Yeah, but the problem is that "wanting to borrow even a cat's hand" isn't a pun in English or other European languages that I know of. It does play out better as a joke in Japanese though, because Araragi also had a part in constructing it, while ANE's and MTBB's (and my own) translations makes it seem like he didn't.
>I personally don't know what a cat and mouse situation isIt means when a person is trying to pursue and capture another. Araragi was talking about using Black Hanekawa's sense of smell to try to find Shinobu, so it would work pretty well as a pun and it would be closer to the actual meaning.
No.130242
>>130239Also, Hachikuji's pun doesn't work in English at all (but you can use your ears if you aren't retarded). ANE at least tried to do something witty with it unlike MTBB though:
ANE:
>I stuttered>I stuttuted>I stumbled into GodMTBB:
>I bit my tongue>I bited my bungus>God's might is among us No.130243
>>130233>Localisation and memes only really cause confusion anyway, particularly if the audience doesn't know the meme or that particular phrase(which happens regularly with American translations). This. If a pun doesn't have an equivalent with literal translation, just add a TL note and leave as is.
I don't know why fansub groups refuse to use TL notes now (it was much more common in old fansubs), which perfectly solves the localized translation problem and actively invites the viewer to actually learn about Japanese cultural subtleties rather than opaquely papering them over with nonsense localization.
No.130245
>>130221Pedantic correction: I took the Japanese transcription of her line from some subtitles I found, but perhaps her line should be framed more as a question as the ANE release frames it, given how she says her "nya" at the end with a slight upward intonation and how the original novel punctuates her line:
>「にゃはは。これが本当の、猫の手も借りたい状況って奴だにゃ!?」>>130230>It does seem like it's the meme by the way they react to it.The pun being that he's literally borrowing a cat's hand isn't particularly funny, so his reaction fits that too.
>>130232>"a cat, but it's fine".If it were meant to come across this way instead of as "even a cat is fine", I think it would've been typeset with some kind of punctuation, space, or line break separating "neko" and "demo".
>>130238>the problem is that "wanting to borrow even a cat's hand" isn't a pun in English or other European languages that I know of.I recognize that that's a problem for some viewers and that that was probably the motivation for why the line was tweaked or papered over in the ANE and MTBB releases. I'm just unconvinced that the line you actually hear her say makes any reference to "a cat is fine too" or "ネコでもいいや…".
No.130251
>>130234I hate that, they should have just left it as it was.
No.130282
>>130279>Maelstrom ►►► Vortex of flames okay but what's the jap word here?
No.130284
File:1.jpg (61.36 KB,1604x423)
>>130282Good thing you asked. I already had this shot taken beforehand. Pic related. "Kachuu" means both "vortex/maelstrom" and "in flames". Official subs translated it as just "maelstrom" and then mentioned Tsukihi engulfing things in flames later. MTBB opted for a more 'direct' localization instead.
No.130285
>>130284which episode and timestamp is this at i want to see the full context
No.130290
>>130286>>130287oh, it's homophone wordplay
doesn't really make a difference
No.130291
homophones are for homos
No.130294
>>130293yeah, true, the vortex is only there for 渦中 (same 渦 as 渦巻/uzumaki)
my dictionaries give for 火中 the simple definition of 火の中, so in the middle of fire, just that
No.130416
>>130242>bited my bungusHere we see a clear example of a bunch of ESLs attempting to make something for English audience. The sad part is about 11 people sign off on this stuff being okay.
>>130243>This. If a pun doesn't have an equivalent with literal translation, just add a TL note and leave as is.This is what I always go with. I'll try to make it work. But I'm not going to shoehorn in a stupid meme or something that makes no sense just to avoid the TL note.
>I don't know why fansub groups refuse to use TL notes now You have to understand that the two primary groups that gatekeep access to all fansub communities are made up of two kinds of people; People working for CR and people trying to get hired by CR. They all toe the line because they're all friends with each other. It's actually worse now than it was years ago because you have two big groups doing this. While everyone else is either denied access to an audience or actively censored. Now add in the fact one of these large groups is ESL (because anyone not ESL is in the other one) and you start to understand the problem.
It's better to do a TL note if there is no equivalent in the language you're translating to. Especially if it's some pun or common Japanese trope. In time the audience learns those words and puns and you don't have to leave large TL notes anymore. Take the word "eroge". I do not have to translate this anymore or explain it. Anyone downloading it already knows what it means. Same is true for things like "Onee-chan" and all the other honorifics.
MTBB actually got huge backlash a few years ago when they first started flooding the trackers with releases for over localization. Their solution was to offer a "honorifics" subtitle track. But it doesn't do anything but add -chan, -kun, and -san here and there. They leave the rest of their bad localization in there. They actually monitor and shill themselves on places like /a/ to. They'll claim they don't but it's very obvious that they're doing it since they talk so openly about it. They dumped something yesterday that got some backlash and they've been out in full damage control since.
But I digress...
>>130244TL notes are a thing you want to have but can't rely on. Otherwise the translation isn't readable. What bothers me is no one does what we did last year. We released companion videos with TL note explanations. I think that kind of thing is the way to go. Old VHS fansubs used to include little booklets with them that would explain TL notes and concepts. This allowed you to keep a bunch of crap off the screen.
You want to limit your TL notes where possible. Doing it like that allows you to use them without it becoming painful.
The worst part about groups like this is the fact that they discourage other groups from doing the same show. No matter how much time you spent working on this show or how much effort you put into it you'll never get it listed in the "best fansub for this series" chart since they're the ones controlling it. Further more, it would be nearly impossible to have an open discussion about another group's work. Since these people not only shit up discussion everywhere normal people hang out but they actively moderate it.
For example, I released three shows that aren't listed in any of those charts because they claim the encode is worse or something. Turns out their justification for the encode being worse is the fact that they combined CR's crappy web stream with the BD. Why? They claim the colors aren't right on the BD. But how would they even know? They only claim the CR one is right because they saw it first. If you exclude that everything else about anyone else's release is better. Especially the most important part: The translation.
But what can you expect from people that write fansub guides that start with:
>Translator: optional.For whatever reason. There is a large group of people now that do not produce their own scripts. Then they go around trying to argue about quality. You can see it on nearly everything they release. They'll drop a diffcheck and claim their script is better. But how would they know? They can't understand Japanese in the first place.
Which is why they probably don't translate puns. They can't understand them. They're going off of whatever official English script they found.
I know this isn't bitch about fansub general. So I apologize if these long winded post bother you guys.
No.130418
>>130417I mean yeah that's always an option. But I'd much rather have something like;
>TL Note: see companion video/book entry #7 for explanation of this punversus a multiple paragraph TL note covering over half the video. I'd also prefer:
>TL Note: The next exchange relies on being well versed in Japanese history. See companion video/book entry #9.Instead of quick TL notes one after another attempting to explain what is different about each line. TL notes got a lot of hate back in the day because they were overused. The issue is now things have gone the other way and they aren't used at all anymore.
The episode we released this morning has 2 or 3 TL notes total. They're short. They are to the point. They aren't happening one after another. I think that's acceptable.
Imagine if you will a fansub that uses a TL note every time someone calls someone "-chan". Or changes the honorifics they're using for the same person. Or changes them to speak to different people. This would be highly annoying. But the reason we don't have to do that is because the audience is so accustomed to what honorifics are already. People that don't know either don't care or will get curious enough to look them up. So it's fine. As worse they'll just assume it is part of someone's name until they notice the honorifics changing when different people are speaking to them.
I guess the main difference is some people assume the audience is retarded where others assume they have at least a bit of common sense. That's the difference really. I also suspect ESLs producing English content for other ESLs make many bad choices both because they don't understand the language natively and they assume most of the viewers don't either. The "bingus" example seems to be something like that.
No.130419
>>130418>The episode we released this morning has 2 or 3 TL notes totalAre you talking about this post:
>>130405 I'm also the poster that replied to it. It would be cool if you guys attempted Monogatari as well, but I guess it could be very time consuming.
>Imagine if you will a fansub that uses a TL note every time someone calls someone "-chan". Or changes the honorifics they're using for the same person.Yeah, you don't have to use it for stuff that should be obvious to a regular anime watcher. It's not much of a problem when official subs omit honorifics though, because I can just use my ears for that.
>The "bingus" example seems to be something like thatIt's "bungus" and it's a real term apparently:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bungus it means "wack". "Bited" is obviously grammatically incorrect however. "I bit my tongue" is the most literal translation possible for "失礼 噛みました" (shitsurei kamimashita) I think though. Official subs translated it as "Sorry, I flubbed" (pic related). "I stuttered/I flubbed" is probably okay under certain contexts though, but when it has to do with like, a pun of Hachikuji biting Araragi then it should be "I bit my tongue".
No.130444
this shab just bited my bungus
No.130446
>>130418Outside of the people trying to play to the stupid drama wars between memesubbers and MTL-tier hyper-literal subbers, most seem to have settled on a healthy use of tl/n's. That includes official subs. The truth is that over-reliance on notes is just as much a crutch for incompetency as rewrites are, it's just that one is more useful for people who don't really know Japanese while the other is more useful for people who don't really know English. If there is an English equivalent to whatever the original is trying to convey, you should find and use it. Notes are an unfortunate necessity of asymmetrical languages and cultures, not praiseworthy additions.
There are official manga volumes with several pages at the end explaining cultural things that readers may not know, including fairly basic things, as well as localization choices to give readers a better understanding of the original without ruining the experience.
Anime practically never does this because it would necessitate extending the video, but you do see a fair number of short notes to explain wordplay and fewer outright rewrites as before. Anime has the blessing/curse of being able to hear the original script, but the real unique consideration is that the video has to keep playing and you only have so much time. Generally, if someone is having to pause to read the subs, they are not good subs and you're not going to enjoy watching them. In extreme cases even the actual dialogue may need to be slightly altered to fit in a span of time, so there's not a lot of wiggle room for also fitting in notes. That's a big part of why, outside of puns and titles, it's often easier to find a concise English equivalent than it is to write a concise note.
No.130453
>>130446I agree with you. But one thing I find odd is the official subtitle script for PaniPoni Dash! It's praised for being so accurate and with so much attention to detail. But it's impossible to watch it without pausing the video every few seconds. Otherwise you'd never understand anything or be able to read all the crap that's on screen. Go give it a look sometime (the DVD subtitles in R1). Most of the time there is more yellow text on screen than actual content.
But if you did that with most shows people would riot. But this one in particular gets a pass for whatever reason.
The real solution is a happy medium and maybe two subtitle tracks so users could get what they prefer. The issue is people producing such things seem to skew heavily into the localize everything camp. They're also the same ones that would always put a dub track first no matter how awful it is or how the average viewer feels about it. Which I find odd. We're to a point where the average viewer that wants Japanese audio and a subtitle track with honorifics and somewhat literal translation is a second class citizen. This was not the norm in the 80s-2010s. Unless you counted over localized content bought in a store. Pretty much everything fansub wise was a happy medium between localization and literal.
In my mind there is no point in consuming foreign content if you don't want to learn about the culture itself. If you aren't into that you might as well watch a native cartoon. Maybe Hi Hi Puffy AmiYumi instead of PaniPoni.
The sad part is we could have good English dub tracks and good localized subtitles as an option. But the industry has proven for the last few decades that no one is willing to pay for it. With the actors guild it's impossible to cast good voice actors. So you end up with the same people doing the voices for every show sometimes for multiple characters in those shows. They phone it in during one take and call it good. Most of them admit they don't even like anime or the work they're doing.
Manga is easier of course because it's a book anyway so a couple of extra pages don't matter (or using the margins). Video doesn't have to be that hard though. You can do something similar with video. Where you have multiple video tracks and the option to switch between them. The problem is no one takes advantage of it.
Really the main issue is anyone that has the time and wants to put in that kind of effort is probably working on something that pays them better than translating anime for free. I'd happily remaster, translate, time, edit and even direct a dub track in my native language for a lot of shows. But no one is ever going to let me do that kind of thing. I don't know why. But it seems like the people working in the industry are the exact types of people that shouldn't be. Everything from the video mastering to the translation is usually bad. No one seems to care because fans keep buying it anyway. Even the BDs and DVDs released within Japan have a lot of obvious errors that could easily be avoided. Especially considering all the storage they have on the average BD over there with so few episodes on each one.
For Monogatari in particular the best thing to do would be to track down all the original fansub scripts from when it was first airing. Then touching them up a little bit and combining them with fresh encodes. This is basically what these ripping groups are doing but for whatever reason they always decide to pick up the worst scripts and edit them badly. Their main claim is they "improve" the video portion of the content. But honestly, all they're really doing is descaling then re-upscaling the frames and maybe running them through a handful of other filters anyone can learn how to use in a day. It's debatable if they "improve" the content at all honestly. 99% of viewers won't notice the difference.
No.130518
You guys might find this enjoyable.
https://disk.yandex.com/d/UwtI6mQk8aEdBhttps://disk.yandex.com/d/GJ79ATtD3MbqmZIt's from the old typesetting guide. Over half hour of someone making signs for the 2nd season.
No.131688
>>131687I'm still shocked the 3D/CGI is so bad in average anime when Arcsys works has had a nearly perfect way to do 2D characters in 3D for over a decade now. All they need to do is adapt their Guilty Gear engine.
No.131689
Arcsys uses unreal engine. It's just that they got a good direction on how to approach 3D in a 2D space
No.131690
>>131689Most people do. It's heavily modified. They're the only ones that have a decent cel shading set-up in Unreal.
No.131691
>>131688It's been a while, but from what I remember seeing the way they do things is a lot of work and they use all sorts of crazy shaders and other stuff. I think it's simply a technology animation studios aren't going to be familiar with. And, well, ideally they
wouldn't be because they're devoting themselves to 2D. But, yeah, obviously that's not going to work for most of them.
Each game company involved in 3D will have its own required programs and workflow and then there's stuff like proprietary scripts and shaders and all that other stuff that heavily conflicts with contracted animators jumping between different studios, which is increasingly common these days. A universal "engine" is probably what would be needed, so people can just learn it before they even have the job.
No.131735
Can't stop thinking about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcxeENnM0yI when I listen to the first few seconds of this...
No.132843
>>132842Maybe, they did weirdly do 2 eps in one with a recap so it's possible production on 9 was delayed?
No.132847
>>132844oh god how horrifying